Re: tinkering God

From: Bill Hamilton <williamehamiltonjr@yahoo.com>
Date: Wed Aug 24 2005 - 16:56:23 EDT

OK. Now I understand your reasoning -- and I agree that literally anything can follow from a contradiction. However, I'm going to stick to my guns regarding God's ability to enter time, or maybe a better way to say it is to interact with creatures that are bound by time. It seems to me we must allow that, or ignore Scripture. I see a problem with your statement
 
"Perhaps you will explain to me how, unabsolutely, anything can be both temporal and atemporal at the same time."
 
For a being who is outside of time, "at the same time" is problematic.

"D. F. Siemens, Jr." <dfsiemensjr@juno.com> wrote:
Bill,
Perhaps you will explain to me how, unabsolutely, anything can be both temporal and atemporal at the same time. The logical principle I appealed to, labeled amazing by the logicians in the Middle Ages who became fully aware of it, provides that every consequence whatsoever follows validly from a contradiction. That is why the use of a contradiction in a reductio ad absurdum argument must be carefully restricted within the argument.
Dave
 
On Wed, 24 Aug 2005 05:51:37 -0700 (PDT) Bill Hamilton <williamehamiltonjr@yahoo.com> writes:
Dave
Perhaps you are attaching absolutism to my statements. God is atemporal, but as the creator of time, it would seem that he can choose on occasion to become involved with it. There' difference between knowing what beach sand feels like between your toes and actually experiencing it. So I would quibble at your second statement below. Finally, maybe I'm dense but I fail to see how your remaining statements follow.

"D. F. Siemens, Jr." <dfsiemensjr@juno.com> wrote:
Bill,
I fear you are ignoring /consequentia mirabilis/ which, for example, accepting your statements, provides validly:
God is atemporal.
God is temporal.
Therefore, Bill Hamilton is god.
Therefore, Bill Hamilton is the devil.
Therefore, Burgy is prouder than Satan.
Therefore, any other nonsense you care to add.
 
As for me, I'll stand by logical consistency.
Dave
 
On Tue, 23 Aug 2005 12:03:08 -0700 (PDT) Bill Hamilton <williamehamiltonjr@yahoo.com> writes:
 

Dave wrote: "
If I understand your claim, God isn't smart enough to anticipate the
total consequences, so has to try new things out. Are you joining the
contemporary groups who deny omniscience to the deity?"

Bill:

That's not what I'm arguing at all. God is omniscient, so of course he can anticipate the consequences of any action he takes. What I'm arguing is that he may interact with nature because he _chooses_ to. I have a Panasonic bread maker at home. It makes great bread, but on occasion I decide that just because I want to feel the dough under my hands, I'm going to make a loaf of bread the old-fashioned way. I don't have to make it myself to see what happens -- I _know_ what's going to happen (if I follow the recipe). I just _like_ carrying out the process myself. In any case I think I have the record on my side: God has entered time many times, as with Abraham, Jacob, and of course the incarnation and Christ's life.

To say that he can't be temporal (as well as outside of time) limits him.

Bill Hamilton
William E. Hamilton, Jr., Ph.D.
586.986.1474 (work) 248.652.4148 (home) 248.303.8651 (mobile)
"...If God is for us, who is against us?" Rom 8:31
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Bill Hamilton
William E. Hamilton, Jr., Ph.D.
586.986.1474 (work) 248.652.4148 (home) 248.303.8651 (mobile)
"...If God is for us, who is against us?" Rom 8:31

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Bill Hamilton
William E. Hamilton, Jr., Ph.D.
586.986.1474 (work) 248.652.4148 (home) 248.303.8651 (mobile)
"...If God is for us, who is against us?" Rom 8:31
                
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Received on Wed Aug 24 16:57:58 2005

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