Re: tinkering God

From: D. F. Siemens, Jr. <>
Date: Wed Aug 24 2005 - 16:03:50 EDT

Perhaps you will explain to me how, unabsolutely, anything can be both
temporal and atemporal at the same time. The logical principle I appealed
to, labeled amazing by the logicians in the Middle Ages who became fully
aware of it, provides that every consequence whatsoever follows validly
from a contradiction. That is why the use of a contradiction in a
reductio ad absurdum argument must be carefully restricted within the

On Wed, 24 Aug 2005 05:51:37 -0700 (PDT) Bill Hamilton
<> writes:
Perhaps you are attaching absolutism to my statements. God is atemporal,
but as the creator of time, it would seem that he can choose on occasion
to become involved with it. There' difference between knowing what beach
sand feels like between your toes and actually experiencing it. So I
would quibble at your second statement below. Finally, maybe I'm dense
but I fail to see how your remaining statements follow.

"D. F. Siemens, Jr." <> wrote:
I fear you are ignoring /consequentia mirabilis/ which, for example,
accepting your statements, provides validly:
God is atemporal.
God is temporal.
Therefore, Bill Hamilton is god.
Therefore, Bill Hamilton is the devil.
Therefore, Burgy is prouder than Satan.
Therefore, any other nonsense you care to add.

As for me, I'll stand by logical consistency.

On Tue, 23 Aug 2005 12:03:08 -0700 (PDT) Bill Hamilton
<> writes:

Dave wrote: "
If I understand your claim, God isn't smart enough to anticipate the
total consequences, so has to try new things out. Are you joining the
contemporary groups who deny omniscience to the deity?"

That's not what I'm arguing at all. God is omniscient, so of course he
can anticipate the consequences of any action he takes. What I'm arguing
is that he may interact with nature because he _chooses_ to. I have a
Panasonic bread maker at home. It makes great bread, but on occasion I
decide that just because I want to feel the dough under my hands, I'm
going to make a loaf of bread the old-fashioned way. I don't have to make
it myself to see what happens -- I _know_ what's going to happen (if I
follow the recipe). I just _like_ carrying out the process myself. In
any case I think I have the record on my side: God has entered time many
times, as with Abraham, Jacob, and of course the incarnation and Christ's
To say that he can't be temporal (as well as outside of time) limits him.

Bill Hamilton
William E. Hamilton, Jr., Ph.D.
586.986.1474 (work) 248.652.4148 (home) 248.303.8651 (mobile)
"...If God is for us, who is against us?" Rom 8:31
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Bill Hamilton
William E. Hamilton, Jr., Ph.D.
586.986.1474 (work) 248.652.4148 (home) 248.303.8651 (mobile)
"...If God is for us, who is against us?" Rom 8:31

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Received on Wed Aug 24 16:24:13 2005

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