Re: How to encourage a former creationist to persevere in faith?

From: D. F. Siemens, Jr. <>
Date: Sat Aug 20 2005 - 15:53:07 EDT

On Sat, 20 Aug 2005 06:11:28 -0700 (PDT) Bill Hamilton
<> writes:
> --- "D. F. Siemens, Jr." <> wrote:
> >
> > On Fri, 19 Aug 2005 18:15:10 -0700 (PDT) Bill Hamilton
> > <> writes:
> > >
> > I think you've overlooked a problem. If God likes to tinker, then
> he must
> > be temporal,
> Not necessarily. God enters time when he deals with men -- after all
> He
> appeared as a man to Abraham, Jacob and others, and He certainly
> entered time
> in the Incarnation.
> and you have to answer such questions as (1) what was god
> > doing before he created the universe? (2) how could he wait an
> infinite
> > length of time before creating the universe, or, otherwise, when
> did he
> > begin to be? A rational orthodox theology requires a deity outside
> of
> > time.
> If all questions about God were answerable, and all paradoxes
> regarding Him
> could be resolved, it would be difficult to establish that He is
> God.
> A deity unfolding in time fits process theology and pantheism, not
> > theism.
> I am not saying that He is unfolding in time. His revelation is
> progressive,
> but He Himself is unchanging.
> >
I fear this confuses God's eternal (timeless) action and changeless
nature with the human view thereof. Scripture says that I was elected and
predestinated before the foundation of the world, and finally that I am
already glorified. But I have not yet seen the last, which I hold as a
glorious hope. We cannot assume that because God appears in time and acts
in time, he reacted at that moment. We are so totally children of time
that we don't have the proper vocabulary to discuss his eternity. If time
started with the foundation of the world (or creation), then there was no
before. But that's the terminology Paul had to use to communicate the
eternal reality to us.

I recall someone saying that a fish philosopher would be the last to
recognize water. The principle applies to human beings and time.
Received on Sat Aug 20 16:09:39 2005

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