Re: from Re: Intelligent Design ?

From: janice matchett <>
Date: Fri Aug 19 2005 - 17:47:16 EDT

At 04:56 PM 8/19/2005, David C Campbell wrote:

>Janice wrote:.......>>>>> Unlike you, his interpretations of the facts are
>sifted through a mind that he believes was given to him by a greater mind
>(God). Or have I misunderstood your position?<<<<<<
>David responds: "Probably; most of the views expressed on the list reflect
>a belief that God ultimately gave us our minds, by whatever means."

## But Pim had written: "Intelligent design can in fact be explained by a
designer of fully natural origin: Mutation..."

How is that different from the evolutionary naturalism of Darwin, and his
stated fears about its implications?

"With me the horrid doubt always arises whether the convictions of man's
mind, which has been developed from the mind of the lower animals, are of
any value or at all trustworthy. Would any one trust in the convictions of
a monkey's mind, if there are any convictions in such a mind?" ~ Charles

>David continues: "It may also be worthwhile to caution that current
>"conservative" politics tends to make similar moral errors to those of
>Dennett et al. by endorsing a free reign to corporate interests. Both
>human individuals and businesses are innately inclined to evil and require
>regulation and justice to keep them in line. Of course, governments fall
>into the same problems-the solution is not merely more laws and inspectors."

### I agree. Here is a good "take" on the situation by Ron Nash, if
you're interested and haven't seen it:
In Defense of Capitalism by Dr. Ronald Nash Volume 39, Number 3; March

Also, here's an interesting report by Marci Hamilton, who is no
conservative by any stretch of the imagination:

< Report November 29, 1999
Volume 52, No. 13>Emory Report 11/29/99 Vol.52. No. 13 Excerpt:

"...Marci Hamilton ... [is] a nationally recognized expert on
constitutional and copyright law. ....

Her forthcoming book, Copyright and the Constitution, examines the
historical and philosophical underpinnings of copyright law and asserts
that the American "copyright regime" is grounded in Calvinism, resulting in
a philosophy that favors the product over the producer.

Calvinism? Hamilton's interest in the intersection of Calvinist theology
and political philosophy emerged early in her career when she began reading
the work of leading constitutional law scholars. She was puzzled by their
"theme of a system of self-rule." "They talked about it as if it were in
existence," she said. "My gut reaction was that direct democracy and
self-rule are a myth that doesn't really exist."

What Hamilton found was that a "deep and abiding distrust of human motives
that permeates Calvinist theology also permeates the Constitution." Her
investigation of that issue has led to another forthcoming book,
tentatively titled The Reformed Constitution: What the Framers Meant by

That our country's form of government is a republic instead of a pure
democracy is no accident, according to Hamilton. The constitutional framers
"expressly rejected direct democracy. Instead, the Constitution constructs
a representative system of government that places all ruling power in the
hands of elected officials."

And the people? Their power is limited to the voting booth and
communication with their elected representatives, she said.

"The Constitution is not built on faith in the people, but rather on
distrust of all social entities, including the people." ...

..Two of the most important framers, James Wilson and James Madison, were
steeped in Presbyterian precepts.

It is Calvinism, Hamilton argued, that "more than any other Protestant
theology, brings together the seeming paradox that man's will is corrupt by
nature but also capable of doing good."

In other words, Calvinism holds that "we can hope for the best but expect
the worst from each other and from the social institutions humans devise."

"Neither Calvin nor the framers stop at distrust, however," Hamilton said.
"They also embrace an extraordinary theology of hope. The framers, like
Calvin, were reformers." ~ Elaine Justice

Here's another item you might find of interest:

The 55 Framers (from North to South):

John Langdon, Congregationalist (Calvinist)
Nicholas Gilman, Congregationalist (Calvinist)
Elbridge Gerry, Episcoplian (Calvinist)
Rufus King, Episcopalian (Calvinist)
Caleb Strong, Congregationalist (Calvinist)
Nathaniel Gorham, Congregationalist (Calvinist)
Roger Sherman, Congregationalist (Calvinist)
William Samuel Johnson, Episcopalian (Calvinist)
Oliver Ellsworth, Congregationalist (Calvinist)
Alexander Hamilton, Episcopalian (Calvinist)
John Lansing, Dutch Reformed (Calvinist)
Robert Yates, Dutch Reformed (Calvinist)
William Patterson, Presbyterian (Calvinist)
William Livingston, Presbyterian (Calvinist)
Jonathan Dayton, Episcopalian (Calvinist)
David Brearly, Episcopalian (Calvinist)
William Churchill Houston, Presbyterian (Calvinist)
Benjamin Franklin, Christian in his youth, Deist in later years, then back
to his Puritan background in his old age (his June 28, 1787 prayer at the
Constitutional Convention was from no "Deist")
Robert Morris, Episcopalian, (Calvinist)
James Wilson, probably a Deist
Gouverneur Morris, Episcopalian (Calvinist)
Thomas Mifflin, Lutheran (Calvinist-lite)
George Clymer, Quaker turned Episcopalian (Calvinist)
Thomas FitzSimmons, Roman Catholic
Jared Ingersoll, Presbyterian (Calvinist)
John Dickinson, Quaker turned Episcopalian (Calvinist)
George Read, Episcopalian, (Calvinist)
Richard Bassett, Methodist
Gunning Bedford, Presbyterian (Calvinist)
Jacob Broom, Lutheran
Luther Martin, Episcopalian, (Calvinist)
Daniel Carroll, Roman Catholic
John Francis Mercer, Episcopalian (Calvinist)
James McHenry, Presbyterian (Calvinist)
Daniel of St Thomas Jennifer, Episcopalian (Calvinist)
George Washington, Episcopalian (Calvinist; no, he was not a deist)
James Madison, Episcopalian (Calvinist)
George Mason, Episcopalian (Calvinist)
Edmund Jennings Randolph, Episcopalian (Calvinist)
James Blair, Jr., Episcopalian (Calvinist)
James McClung, ?
George Wythe, Episcopalian (Calvinist)
William Richardson Davie, Presbyterian (Calvinist)
Hugh Williamson, Presbyterian, possibly later became a Deist
William Blount, Presbyterian (Calvinist)
Alexander Martin, Presbyterian/Episcopalian (Calvinist)
Richard Dobbs Spaight, Jr., Episcopalian (Calvinist)
John Rutledge, Episcopalian (Calvinist)
Charles Cotesworth Pinckney, III, Episcopalian (Calvinist)
Abraham Baldwin, Congregationalist (Calvinist)
William Leigh Pierce, Episcopalian (Calvinist)
William Houstoun, Episcopalian (Calvinist)
William Few, Methodist

NOTE: Historic Protestant, Episcopalian doctrine is Reformed and
Calvinistic. The Episcopalian church that adheres to its historic doctrine
is still Reformed in the United States.

"Calvinism prevailed in England since it was the theology behind the
Thirty-Nine Articles (1563) of the Church of England" (Paul Enns, *Moody
Handbook of Theology*. Chicago: Moody Press, 1989), p. 476.

The Episcopalians held as their subordinate standards the 39 Articles of
Religion. This confession is Calvinistic in emphasis.

During that historic period, not only the 39 Articles of Religion
("Episcopalians"), but whenever you read of the Waldensians, the Bohemian
Brethren (in Poland), the Huguenots, you're reading of churches that were

Historic Protestant, Episcopalian doctrine is Reformed and Calvinistic. The
Episcopalian church that adheres to its historic doctrine is still Reformed
in the United States.

X. OF FREE WILL. 39 Articles of Religion.

The condition of Man after the fall of Adam is such, that he cannot turn
and prepare himself, by his own natural strength and good works, to faith,
and calling upon God. Wherefore we have no power to do good works pleasant
and acceptable to God, without the grace of God by Christ preventing us,
that we may have a good will, and working with us, when we have that good


Predestination to Life is the everlasting purpose of God, whereby (before
the foundations of the world were laid) he hath constantly decreed by his
counsel secret to us, to deliver from curse and damnation those whom he
hath chosen in Christ out of mankind, and to bring them by Christ to
everlasting salvation, as vessels made to honour. Wherefore, they which be
endued with so excellent a benefit of God, be called according to God's
purpose by his Spirit working in due season: they through Grace obey the
calling: they be justified freely: they be made sons of God by adoption:
they be made like the image of his only- begotten Son Jesus Christ: they
walk religiously in good works, and at length, by God's mercy, they attain
to everlasting felicity.

Received on Fri Aug 19 17:49:29 2005

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