Re: "Body's defense mechanism worsens asthma symptoms" - a challenge for ID?

From: David F Siemens <>
Date: Fri Aug 12 2005 - 09:43:11 EDT

On Thu, 11 Aug 2005 22:39:12 +0100 Iain Strachan <>
> On 8/11/05, David F Siemens <> wrote:
> > > So I don't see that this prevents a threat to "Intelligent
> Design" -
> > > the universe is probabilistic, and you can't get round the
> maths.
> > > It
> > > neither proves nor disproves intelligent design.
> > >
> > > Iain.
> > >
> > >
> > Are you saying that an omiscient and omnipotent Creator could not
> have
> > figured out how to overcome these design problems? I understand
> that
> > finite engineers find themselves making trade offs. But is the
> Creator
> > similarly restricted?
> > Dave
> I wasn't saying that; though I don't see how even a creator can
> make
> 2+2=5, or get round the maths constraints. I suppose however you
> might be arguing that the creator could have made it so the
> trade-off
> wasn't so critical. I wasn't saying that the designer if it was
> God
> could not have done that, but it seems to me that you insist that
> Intelligent Design requires this. But I don't think it does. As I
> understand it, it requires Design, but not necessarily perfect
> design.
> If you believe that the evolutionary process was Designed up
> front,
> then once again it's a search for (local) optima which are always
> going to be a trade-off. If a universe where nothing goes wrong
> were
> created, where would be the point of faith? What would be the
> point
> of the Crucifixion? God chose ultimately to reveal himself through
> Christ, and that is meaningless unless it's in a fallen universe
> where
> suffering, evil, etc exist.
> Iain
All I'm claiming is that there a difference between the best design we
can manage at a given time, with necessary compromises because of the
state of knowledge and physical restrictions, and perfect design, without
compromise or restriction. Obviously, it would not be our world. I note
the radical difference between early automobiles and the current models,
or even between those of the 70s and 80s, when they were simply hanging
more devices on the earlier type engine compared to the rethought engines
currently installed, let alone hybrids. Technology has given us cleaner,
more economical power. Carry this just to the aleph null power and
imagine what you get.
Received on Fri Aug 12 10:11:03 2005

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