Re: Stereotypes and reputations

From: Glenn Morton <>
Date: Mon Aug 01 2005 - 08:40:53 EDT

Cornelius Hunter <> wrote:
Glenn wrote: "If you can't respond to simple questions without wandering
around the landscape, conversations will be very difficult."

CH replied: Sorry, I'm trying to provide more substantial posts rather than mere terse answers.

GRM:Answers are best if they actually address the subject to which you are replying.

Glenn asked: "Can you please explain why this continuing total change of fauna
over time occurs? . Why did God require 200 million years for plants to
appear on land? Why did God then require another 100 million before complex
life to appear? What was he waiting for? Why did his genetic tinkerings take
so long? . Why couldn't mankind have appeared on earth in the Late
Paleozoic--240 million years ago? What exactly was God waiting for? When you
do explain this, please explain God's reasoning for this species change as

CH replied:These are not scientific questions and they are irrelevent to the claim that
there is overwhelming evidence for common descent. You asked about the ID
perspective. Perhaps you are unfamiliar with ID. It is not a theory about
how or why divine intervention works. A common misconception is that ID is
at the evolution level; that is, an explanation for how the species arose,
and by extension, all of natural history.

GRM: So, you are saying that all this hubub in religious circles has absolutely nothing to do with religion, Christianity or anything at all. Any output of ID which might help religion is purely coincidental????? Come on, why is it then that the religious publishers publish y'alls stuff? Come on, you really think one can beleive that? Your publisher, Brazos Press describes itself as "Christian book publisher of popular and academic books on topics such as spirituality, popular culture, theology, and biblical studies. Brazos publishes evangelical, Roman Catholic, mainline, and Eastern Orthodox works."

GRM:And of course, your book has nothing whatsoever to do with religion, but a publisher like that choses to publish something that has nothing to do with religion. You must think us fools. I always find it so odd that so many religious anti-evolutionists try to hide their light under a bushel basket and deny that they are acting upon religious motives. I proudly do work on my religious motives. Apparently unlike you, I am proud that I am an apologist but you don't want anyone to know that you are associated with God. Isn't there a bible verse about that somewhere?

GRM: I would also note that if what you say is true (what you say is "A common misconception is that ID is at the evolution level; that is, an explanation for how the species arose, and by extension, all of natural history.") then why on earth are you so opposed to evolution? If ID says nothing about evolution, why do you use it to argue against evolution? Doesn't this sound a bit mixed up to you?

Glenn wrote: " You can't seem to defend the gaping holes in your arguments
against evolution."

CH asked: What "gaping holes" are you referring to?

GRM: The fact that your design theory can't account for why the design changed all the time. Who changed the designs (species) Why did they do it (after all if the designer is intelligent he [this supposed little green man from Betelgeuse who isn't really God] must have had some reason for changing the design over and over). What was it?

Glenn wrote: "You say evolution is false because the data doesn't support it
but when faced with the FACT that all fossil forms have changed, you retreat
and claim that you can't explain anything. How hypocritical of you.
Cryogenic Cornelius slids away on the ice beneath his feet. You can't
explain why the the fossils are different or how that impacts theology, then
shame on you for acting as if the evolutionist is avoiding data. I think
you can dish it out but you can't take it. Cowardly is what I call that.
Sorry, but I find such hypocrisy to be consistent and steady among the
anti-evolutionists. They always go silent and slip away when faced with
actual data."

CH replied: I did not say I couldn't explain anything. We were talking about the claim
that there is strong evidence for common descent in this thread. You came in
with theological questions which I politely deferred. I of course could have
given you answers to questions such as "Why did God require 200 million
years for plants to appear on land?"

GRM: You seem to miss the entire point. The fact that the fauna have changed in nested hierarchies throughout time IS great evidence of common descent. Of course you will ignore the pattern seen in the fossils. There were no house cats, before there were mammals, but, even after there were mammals there were no house cats, before there were placentals. And then after there were placentals, there were no house cats before there were Carnivora. and even after there were carnivora, there were no house cats before there was the Felidae. And that was in the Upper Eocene, long after mammals were formed. But even then there were no house cats. They didn't appear until about 10,000 years ago. So, why did this little green non-god from Betelgeuse wait so long to make my cat, whose name is Ceilidgh? I do like this creation of this non-god from Betelgeuse even though she all too often thinks I am prey.

GRM:Recently there was a new family of rodents found in Laos. Was this new family a new creation of this non-god being from Betelgeuse? Did your designer, who ever that might be create this creature about 10 years ago? How would we tell? Please explain what we are to do with this new family. Has the non-god been busy creating more vermin?

CH continues: And you could have disagreed. It would
be your god against my god. You obviously have strong feelings that a
creationist explanation makes no sense. Fine, I grant you that.

GRM: There is an inconsistency here. I thought you said that ID wasn't about God and how he intervened. If ID is not about Gods, how could it be my god against your god? Please try to remember what you write. Why isn't it my non-god, Oogaboogah, vrs your little green non-god from Betelgeuse?

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Received on Mon Aug 1 08:43:24 2005

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