Re: Numerics

From: David Bradford <>
Date: Sun Jun 05 2005 - 05:57:39 EDT

You are courageous to even think about tackling the numerics head on. Rightly or wrongly this is a topic that, like trench warfare, makes no perceptible progress. Which is why the (D/d)esigner makes available other forms of supporting evidence. By all means apply your expertise to the co-ordinated geometries etc, as there are some of us that would like (over and above our gut reaction) assurance as to what is designed and what is random. But would you also like to comment on the co-incident linguistic artefacts that I have unearthed in the same text and published at . (Incidentally, it is worth spending 30 seconds just to scan through this site before diving in deeply).

I also have knowledge of many additional numerical characteristics, but am wary of revealing this aspect too early, because of entrenched positions. However I shall do so, soon, because they provide key links into the next tranche of linguistic features.


  ----- Original Message -----
  From: Iain Strachan
  To: Randy Isaac
  Sent: Sunday, June 05, 2005 12:20 AM
  Subject: Re: Numerics

  I would like to point out that having taken the time to look in to Vernon's work on the numerics, it is my opinion that there is much more to it than either Glenn's parody, or much of Panin's work.

  No-one so far has responded to Vernon's comment about coordinated geometries. This is far more difficult IMO to write off as coincidence than the accumulation of many multiples of 7 (or 5 in Glenn's case).

  I realise that this may not be most peoples' cup of tea, and I have spent some time myself looking into it before coming to my conclusions. I think there may be principled scientific ways of explaining it (possibly using Kolmogorov complexity theory), but I can't give a definitive statement as yet.

  I will state here, as Vernon already knows, that I do _not_ accept that his discoveries in any way support a literal/historical interpretation of Genesis Ch 1. Nor do I say it "proves" Divine Inspiration of the Bible. That is one possible conclusion (that it's a watermark), but it could be a human contrivance ( mathematician Ivor Grattann-Guinness believes this to be the case).

  This would be easier to discuss if one could first ask the question as to whether it is deliberate design & then leave till later the nature of the designer (who might or might not have a capital D).


  On 6/4/05, Randy Isaac <> wrote:
    With the recent exchange between Glenn and Vernon fresh in my mind, I was intrigued when I read the following paragraphs in Alton Everest's history of the ASA. Peter Stoner is one of the five founders of the ASA. He was a mathematician and an astronomer.

    "Peter Stoner's background in mathematics caused him to be incensed at a book on Bible numerics he encountered. It was a popularization of Canadian Ivan Panin's work entitled "Astounding New Discoveries" written by Karl G. Sabiers. Stoner was able to confer with both Sabiers and his financial backer, chemist Albert Nobell in the Los Angeles area.

    "Panin's work claimed to prove the Bible inspired by assigning conventionally accepted numeric values to the letters in the original languages then demonstrating inspiration by an exceptional number of additive combinations divisible by 7. Each such number was called a "feature". Many combinations were considered: the number of words in a passage, number of letters in a word, the value of each individual letter in a word, etc. The number of features Panin found were far below the number that should exist if taken at random. Panin had not considered the random requirement.

    "Stoner's careful dealing with Sabiers and Nobell undoubtedly contributed to Sabiers work fading from the scene. Who can forget Stoner telling, with a twinkle in his eye, that by Panin's calculations he had computed that "The Prologue to Evangeline" is more inspired than Genesis!"

    The references cited are:

    Letter, Peter W. Stoner to H. Harold Hartzler, 7 June 1947

    Stoner, Peter W. "Dr. Ivan Panin's Work on Bible Numerics", Yearbook of the American Scientific Affiliation, 1947.


  There are 3 types of people in the world.
  Those who can count and those who can't.
Received on Sun Jun 5 05:58:51 2005

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