Re: ICR's ACTS & FACTS for May, 2005Kingsley and Irish Baboons

From: Michael Roberts <>
Date: Thu Apr 28 2005 - 16:30:35 EDT

It is absolutely true that Kingsley called the Irish baboons. In the
mid-19th century many mainland Brits were very prejudiced against the
Catholic Irish and there is no denying. Hugh Miller was another offender but
he never accepted evolution.

BUT aig then get the knife in and without reference to the facts (so keen on
the 4th but not the 9th commandment) falsely implied that first the Origin
was racist - it had one line on humans. It also omits to say that that
Darwin was not a racist though many of his comments may appear that way. He
was a virulent anti-slavery person as were all his family . This comes out
in the end of his book on the voyage - 2nd edit only which was written in
opposition to Lyell with what of the finest anti-slavery statements ever
written - far far better than any born the same day as him (12/2/1809). And
then in letters to asa gray during the Civil War their mutual abhorrence of
slavery came to the for, while Dabney and Thornwell were arguing for a young
earth and supporting slavery .

In today's terms CD could be seen as racist, but his concern against slavery
speaks volumes

I don't think YEC has a good record on racism, - Dabney, Harry Rimmer, Henry
Morris himself and the South African Afrikaner (klip-spinakoppie) Duyevene
de Wit who argued in a 1963 paper probably in Bleomfontein argued that the
Bantu (black Africans) had undergone a process of "brutification and
devolution" with a morphological convergence with the higher apes (Maatman
The Impact of Evolutionary Theory 1993 Ddort College Press p296) Now I was
recommended to read de Wit as a good YEC at L'Abri in 1971, although at that
time I was thoroughly anti-Calvinist as I had recently left South Africa and
did not like the Calvinist Dutch Reformed Church. (Terry I have reformed!)

I know Ted will mention the eugenicists and racists among evolutionary
Liberal Prots in the 1920s, but no one has a good heritage on racialism, to
use the proper word.

As Jacques Ellul argued in "Propaganda" the best propaganda is largely true
because it can then be believed.


 Your comment
> reminded me of a short article in the latest AiG newsletter (Answers
> Update, Vol. 12, no. 4) about Charles Kingsley. When I read it, my first
> reaction was that the Kingsley story had to be a typical AiG
> misrepresentation of history. But realizing that my own British history
> education is very poor (having only read Churchill's _History of the
> English Speaking People_ once), I immediately began to wonder how our
> resident ASA English and Anglican historian, M. Roberts, would respond.
> Below is the short story from the latest AiG newsletter, followed by a
> note
> and a question to Michael (and others).
> ---------------
> Human chimps?
> Did you know that a church leader once referred to some people in Ireland
> as "white chimpanzees"? Here's the sad story.
> In the 1840s and 1850s, Ireland suffered through the great Irish potato
> famine. It killed over one million people, in a land of only 8 million.
> In 1860, English clergyman Charles Kingsley visited Ireland. In a letter
> to his wife he wrote, concerning the refugees he saw, "I am haunted by the
> human chimpanzees I saw along that hundred miles of horrible country. ...
> to see white chimpanzees is dreadful; if they were black, one would not
> feel it so much, but their skins, except where tanned by exposure, are as
> white as ours."
> How could a church leader, a "man of God," ever refer to people as white
> chimpanzees? Well, Kingsley had been influenced by Darwin's Origin of
> Species, published only one year earlier. He had completely accepted
> racist evolutionary thinking and no longer considered humans as created in
> the image of God.
> Kingsley, like many church leaders after him, traded God's Word for man's
> word. Sadly, this thinking has had a devastating effect on the church and
> all of Western culture.
> (Excerpted from the May 17, 2005, radio broadcast of _Answers ... with Ken
> Ham_)
> Printed in Answers Update, Vol. 12, no. 4, p. 12
> ----------------
> This pre-quoted radio broadcast story was apparently condensed from at
> least two Creation Magazine articles about Charles Kingsley by Russell M.
> Grigg M.Sc. (Hons.) Creationist Chemist and Missionary (AiG — Australia)
> [bio blurb from AiG website - SMS].
> Potatoes and 'white chimpanzees'
> <>
> Darwin's quisling
> <>
> Michael (and other history buffs),
> What say ye? Did my baloney detector malfunction or does this smell of ad
> hominem and revisionist history?
> Steve
> [Disclaimer: Opinions expressed herein are my own. No one else--including
> my employer-- wants credit, blame, or responsibility for them.]
> _____________
> Steven M. Smith, Geologist, U.S. Geological Survey
> Box 25046, M.S. 973, DFC, Denver, CO 80225
> Office: (303)236-1192, Fax: (303)236-3200
> Email:
> -USGS Nat'l Geochem. Database NURE HSSR Web Site-
Received on Thu Apr 28 16:34:14 2005

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