Re: Non-truths that do not transform

From: Iain Strachan <igd.strachan@gmail.com>
Date: Wed Apr 27 2005 - 03:11:18 EDT

Thanks John, err. Michael!

On 4/26/05, Michael Roberts <michael.andrea.r@ukonline.co.uk> wrote:
> Awfully sorry,Iain, I seem to be turning into a latter day John Knox!
>
> Seriously Iain get behind my irony and rhetoric to see that people who
> charge others of being deceived by the devil ought to watch what they say.

My problem with the irony and rhetoric is that it is one of the more
objectionable features of the kind of propaganda that AiG puts out. I
am not silent on this issue, as you might suppose - indeed I wrote to
AiG protesting about the offensive manner of "Socrates" on TW (aka Dr.
Jonathan Sarfati), and asking if they approved of his manner. They
replied that they had advised Sarfati to end his contributions to TW
as he had got "too personally involved".

Now, I admit that you are nothing like as offensive as Sarfati was
(you don't call people "pillocks", but could I perhaps suggest that
when you make untrue statements saying that Vernon believes we worship
the Devil (which you apparently justify by calling it "irony"), that
maybe you are also becoming a little too personally involved.

I think Vernon would say that we are _all_ deceived by the devil in
various ways - that is the sinful nature of man, and I certainly
wouldn't disagree with that. I agree, however that Vernon should not
say that peoples' refusal to accept the numerical ideas is because
they are being blinded by the devil. I can't see how that does
anything but put peoples backs up.

Perhaps you should try and not let your back be got up, not go into
Knox mode, and try to reason (as many other posters here are doing).
In the end, if you make no progress, then the usual option is to
ignore the posts.

Respectfully,
Iain

> Vernon has done it far too often, and never replies to serious questions,
> unless one thinks his numerology is divine.
>
> Michael
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Iain Strachan" <igd.strachan@gmail.com>
> To: "Michael Roberts" <michael.andrea.r@ukonline.co.uk>
> Cc: "Vernon Jenkins" <vernon.jenkins@virgin.net>; <CMSharp01@aol.com>;
> <rogero@saintjoe.edu>; <asa@calvin.edu>
> Sent: Tuesday, April 26, 2005 8:16 AM
> Subject: Re: Non-truths that do not transform
>
> > Michael wrote:
> >
> >> Vernon
> >>
> >> You continue to misuse Holy Scripture to attempt to demonstrate that we
> >> are
> >> under the influence of the Devil. You should apologise to all of us at
> >> once.
> >>
> >> If God created everything with the appearance of age then he must be the
> >> DEVIL, who you think we worship.
> >
> > Michael,
> >
> > Maybe my memory is incorrect, because I can't recally Vernon actually
> > saying you worshipped the Devil, but if you can show me _explicit_
> > evidence that Vernon has stated/believes that ASA members worship the
> > devil, then I agree entirely that Vernon should apologise abjectly to
> > the group. Vernon, I hope you are listening here, because if it's
> > true that you think the group worship the devil then indeed you are
> > guilty of the most serious and unpleasant slurs on the group who are
> > only, as Michael rightly says, trying to seek the truth.
> >
> > But on the other hand if there is no evidence that Vernon has said or
> > believes the rest of the group worship the devil, then Michael should
> > be the one to apologise for nasty slurs - in the absence of such
> > evidence it would become clear that Michael is the one who is guilty
> > of ludicrous exaggerations in order to discredit Vernon.
> >
> > But Vernon, I do seriously think you should tone down your rhetoric -
> > you are only antagonising people by what you do.
> >
> > Michael, show me the evidence and I'll support your stand.
> >
> > I'd also conclude that we all believe wrong things, and to believe a
> > lie is to be decieved by the Devil. That's an entirely different
> > matter to worshipping the Devil.
> >
> > Iain
> >
> >>
> >> Generally appalled by your supa-supa-supa-spiritual attitude, - a little
> >> humility and respect would not go amiss.
> >>
> >> If you look carefully most posters here are Christians who are genuinely
> >> seeking the truth, and all we get from you are nasty slurs. You get the
> >> same
> >> from the likes of Ken Ham and Duane Gish.
> >>
> >> There are many parts of the Bible you need to read
> >>
> >> Michael
> >>
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >>
> >> From: Vernon Jenkins
> >> To: CMSharp01@aol.com ; rogero@saintjoe.edu
> >> Cc: asa@calvin.edu
> >>
> >> Sent: Monday, April 25, 2005 9:51 PM
> >> Subject: Re: Non-truths that do not transform
> >>
> >>
> >> Hi Christopher,
> >>
> >> While we await Dr.D.James Kennedy's response to your letter let me press
> >> you
> >> a little regarding one of the matters raised. You wrote, "The real irony
> >> of
> >> YEC is that its proponents...often resort to some form of deceptive
> >> creation
> >> with the appearance of age."
> >>
> >> I trust you would agree that anything created by divine fiat ex nihilo
> >> (as
> >> strongly implied by the words of Genesis 1) must be fully functional from
> >> day one, and hence must inevitably assume an 'appearance of age'. Surely,
> >> to
> >> deny this is to question the capabilities of the Creator. So, if we
> >> believe
> >> in a God for whom nothing is impossible (Gen.18:14), how can we
> >> Christians
> >> deny the possibility of something being younger than it appears?
> >>
> >> As in our earlier exchanges you consistently refuse to accept the fact
> >> that
> >> - to be meaningful and truly productive - all discussions involving
> >> matters
> >> which raise questions concerning the Integrity and Authority of the
> >> Judaeo-Christian Scriptures must involve a consideration of the
> >> _supernatural_. Your being satisfied with the restricted light of
> >> methodological naturalism suggests you have little time for the cautions
> >> expressed in Eph.6:10-18 and 1Pet.5:8, for example. Is that, indeed, your
> >> position?
> >>
> >> Vernon
> >> www.otherbiblecode.com
> >>
> >> PS By the way, you mustn't be misled by the bad press that _numerology_
> >> has
> >> acquired over the years. In the hands of the Lord it can - and has -
> >> become
> >> a powerful Christian apologetic.
> >>
> >> V
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: CMSharp01@aol.com
> >> To: rogero@saintjoe.edu
> >> Cc: asa@calvin.edu
> >> Sent: Saturday, April 23, 2005 11:06 PM
> >> Subject: Re: Non-truths that do not transform
> >>
> >> Roger,
> >>
> >> Thanks for your message, but I doubt that Dr. D. James
> >> Kennedy will respond, but if he does I will let you know.
> >>
> >> Christopher
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> Christopher:
> >>
> >> Your letter to Dr. Kennedy articulated beautifully the scientific and
> >> theological failings of the young earth position. And, it was expressed
> >> both forcefully and graciously and in the spirit of Christ.
> >>
> >> Please let us know whether Dr. D. James responds.
> >>
> >> Thanks!
> >>
> >> Roger
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> > --
> > -----------
> > There are 3 types of people in the world.
> > Those who can count and those who can't.
> > -----------
> >
>
>

-- 
-----------
There are 3 types of people in the world.
Those who can count and those who can't.
-----------
Received on Wed Apr 27 03:13:26 2005

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