Re: Death before the Fall

From: Jan de Koning <>
Date: Tue Apr 19 2005 - 11:24:50 EDT

At 07:06 AM 4/19/2005, jack syme wrote:
>That is an oversimplification.
>Certainly there were platonic influences to later ideas about bodies and
>souls as seperate concepts.
>But the Israelites clearly believed that some type of spirit existed after
>the body died, for they resided in Hades. In other words after the body
>died there was some type of existence. To quote John Cooper:
>"Death is not the end of existence. It is rather the entrance of the
>individual as a ghost-and etherial quasi-bodily being, not a Platonic soul
>or Cartesian mind-into the dreary and lethargic, if not soporific,
>existence of the underworld, Sheol, Abaddon, or in the Septuagint, Hades.

I never said that death was the end of existence. But I do say that "time"
is a creation of God, and that when we die we are out of "time" whatever
that means. Sheol, Abaddon, Hades, are not necessarily places which are in
"time". "Time" is a creation of God as well. Besides the translation of
"nephesh" is not so sure as you seem to think, and as is clear from all the
different translations for that word in the OT.

For now, I do not have "time" nor do I wish to go on with a discussion
which, when it is properly done involves basic differences in philosophy,
philology, science and maybe more in other areas. The discussion needs to
go on, but I do not have the "time" now. I mentioned the different ways
the word "nephesh" is translated, which indicates the influence of certain
philosophies. Also, as someone else noted, the Lord spoke top people in a
language they understood, so no modern science, philosophy etc. should be
deduced from a particular translation.

Jan de Koning
Received on Tue Apr 19 11:56:37 2005

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