Re: numerologyand Aaron's breastplate: was : It's no joke

From: Don Nield <d.nield@auckland.ac.nz>
Date: Thu Apr 14 2005 - 19:08:48 EDT

Hi Vernon:
We are talking about a passage in Exodus here. What happened later is
irrelevant. A proper exegesis indicates that the names that are referred
to in Exodus 28: 30 are the same as those listed in Exodus 1: 1-4, and
would be written in that order.
Don

Vernon Jenkins wrote:

> Hi Don,
>
> Thanks for your comments. The overall order of birth of the 12 sons of
> Jacob (as detailed in Gen.29:31-35; 30:1-24; 35:16-18) is as follows
> (mother's name bracketed):
>
> 1. REUBEN (Leah)
> 2. SIMEON (Leah)
> 3. LEVI (Leah)
> 4. JUDAH (Leah)
> 5. DAN (Rachel/Bilhah)
> 6. NAPHTALI (Rachel/Bilhah)
> 7. GAD (Leah/Zilpah)
> 8. ASHER (Leah/Zilpah)
> 9. ISSACHAR (Leah)
> 10. ZEBULUN (Leah)
> 11. JOSEPH (Rachel)
> 12. BENJAMIN (Rachel)
>
> When the promised land was divided between the tribes (Nu.1), Levi was
> excluded (Dt.10:8-9) and Joseph was represented by his sons Manasseh
> and Ephraim. You will find these details are accurately implemented in
> the disputed breastplate pattern.
>
> You wrote,
>
> 1. Exod. 28:30 says that Aaron will bear the names of the sons of Israel
> in the breastpiece --- not the names of some sons and some grandsons.
>
> A little earlier, in Ex.28:21, we read "And the stones shall be with
> the names of the children of Israel...every one with his name shall
> they be /*according to the twelve tribes*/." As we have seen, Levi and
> Joseph inherited no land - hence they formed no part of the twelve
> tribes. One should also remember that the descendants of Jacob were
> collectively referred to as /*the children of Israel.*/
>
> 2. The order of entries into the 3 times 4 matrix is completely
> arbitrary...
>
> Not so. The birth order has been strictly adhered to.
>
> ...Gen.35:22-26 lists the names of the sons of Israel, all 12
> of them. For example, Gad is number 11 on the list, and according to
> Chapter 30 of Genesis he was the the second to last to be born.. Gad
> codes to 7, and 7 is placed in the (2,1) position of the matrix., an
> arbitrary position...
>
> You need to read this reference again; rather than an /*overall*/
> birth order, what we have here is the birth order relating to each of
> the 4 mothers. See my references and list above for the correct
> interpretation.
>
> ...Even without considering substitutions of grandsons
> for sons, there are factorial 12 (about half a billion) of ways of
> putting the entries into the matrix, so it is not surprising that one
> combination yields something interesting.
>
> Actually, the number of possible combinations is 4096 (i.e. 2^12).
> What is surprising, surely, is that the remarkable features observed
> involve the sums of /*contiguous groups*/ of breastplate array
> elements. Further, you fail to take into account the other, earlier,
> findings detailed in "An Oracle Restored". This may be found at
> http://homepage.virgin.net/vernon.jenkins/oracle.htm
>
> Vernon
> www.otherbiblecode.com <http://www.otherbiblecode.com>
>
>
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Don Nield" <d.nield@auckland.ac.nz <mailto:d.nield@auckland.ac.nz>>
> To: "Vernon Jenkins" <vernon.jenkins@virgin.net
> <mailto:vernon.jenkins@virgin.net>>
> Cc: <asa@calvin.edu <mailto:asa@calvin.edu>>
> Sent: Thursday, April 14, 2005 1:04 AM
> Subject: numerologyand Aaron's breastplate: was : It's no joke
>
> > Hi Vernon:
> > The whole thing is very arbitrary.
> > 1. Exod. 28:30 says that Aaron will bear the names of the sons of
> Israel
> > in the breastpiece --- not the names of some sons and some grandsons.
> > 2. The order of entries into the 3 times 4 matrix is completely
> > arbitrary. Gen.35:22-26 lists the names of the sons of Israel, all 12
> > of them. For example, Gad is number 11 on the list, and according to
> > Chapter 30 of Genesis he was the the second to last to be born.. Gad
> > codes to 7, and 7 is placed in the (2,1) position of the matrix., an
> > arbitrary position. Even without considering substitutions of grandsons
> > for sons, there are factorial 12 (about half a billion) of ways of
> > putting the entries into the matrix, so it is not surprising that one
> > combination yields something interesting.
> >
> > You, Vernon, may be impressed by this numerology but I am not.
> > Don
> >
> > Vernon Jenkins wrote:
> >
> >> Hi Dave,
> >>
> >> Thanks for bringing this to our attention. No, I can offer no
> >> satisfactory explanation (risible, or otherwise), and freely admit
> >> that you fellows have in your armoury weapons that continue to present
> >> difficulties for one of my persuasion. However, you in turn
> >> must sometimes experience a twinge or two of doubt. Let me therefore
> >> test you with a little matter that was drawn to my attention some days
> >> ago.
> >>
> >> One of the principal reasons for the 'Mt.Sinai encounter', recorded in
> >> Exodus 25-31, was to instruct Moses as to the precise details of
> >> construction of the portable sanctuary that would function as God's
> >> dwelling place on earth - the tabernacle - together with its
> >> furnishings, and manner of use. Concerning the high-priestly
> >> vestments we read particularly of the /oracle/ - the Urim and Thummim
> >> (Ex.28:30) - provided for the guidance of the people in difficult and
> >> uncertain times. Details are lacking of the nature and use of these
> >> items, but we are informed that they were held in a pouch - called the
> >> /breastplate/ (or, in some translations, /breastpiece/) - attached to
> >> the front of the /ephod/ - the outmost garment of the high priest.
> >> This breastplate was formed from a single piece of highly-embroidered
> >> linen cloth one cubit long and half a cubit wide, folded over in two
> >> to form a square, half a cubit by half a cubit (about 9in.x 9in). It
> >> was adorned with twelve precious stones on which were engraved the
> >> names of the twelve tribes - ie those of the sons and grandsons of
> >> Jacob arranged according to their order of birth. These were set out
> >> in four rows of three stones each (Ex.28:15-30). [Note: the names
> >> 'Levi' and 'Joseph' are absent from this arrangement].
> >>
> >> A fair alternative reading of the Hebrew of these tribal names leads
> >> to a rectangular array of whole numbers. 'Jesus Christ' is encoded 3
> >> times in this array; by name, once in Greek and once in Hebrew; by
> >> description, once in Hebrew. The details may be found here:
> >> http://www.fivedoves.com/tng/gospelinstone.htm
> >>
> >> Surely mysteries such as these must be accomodated by all who are
> >> committed to the search for truth. I trust you would agree.
> >>
> >> Vernon
> >> www.otherbiblecode.com <http://www.otherbiblecode.com>
> <http://www.otherbiblecode.com>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >> ----- Original Message -----
> >> From: "D. F. Siemens, Jr." <dfsiemensjr@juno.com
> <mailto:dfsiemensjr@juno.com>
> >> <mailto:dfsiemensjr@juno.com>>
> >> To: <asa@calvin.edu <mailto:asa@calvin.edu> <mailto:asa@calvin.edu>>
> >> Sent: Monday, April 11, 2005 7:21 PM
> >> Subject: Re: It's no joke
> >>
> >> >I just read a news item in /Science/, 307:1841 (25 March 2005), that
> >> > radiocarbon dating has been calibrated back to "12,400 cal yr B.P."
> >> using
> >> > tree rings, and to 26,000 through corals and forminifera. The
> original
> >> > studies are in /Radiocarbon/, 46 (2005). Since an earlier calibration
> >> > brought out the explanation in the /Journal of the Creation Research
> >> > Society/ that bristlecone pines sometimes (~1 in 3 years ?) produced
> >> > double rings, and Vernon insists that nothing can be carbon-dated
> older
> >> > than 58,000 yr B.P., are we to recognize that every tree produces
> three
> >> > annual rings annually? Or is it that recognizing an old earth makes
> >> > scientists either unable to count or to recognize growth rings? Note
> >> > that, on YEC/flood geology assumptions, tree rings must have been
> >> > produced since the Flood, not since creation.
> >> >
> >> > I await the risible explanation, which contradicts the heading.
> >> > Dave
> >> >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> >
> > Donald A. Nield
> > Associate Professor, Department of Engineering Science
> > University of Auckland
> > Private Bag 92019
> > Auckland, NEW ZEALAND
> > ph +64 9 3737599 x87908
> > fax +64 9 3737468
> > d.nield@auckland.ac.nz <mailto:d.nield@auckland.ac.nz>
> > http://www.esc.auckland.ac.nz/People/Staff/Nield/
> >
> >

-- 
Donald A. Nield
Associate Professor, Department of Engineering Science
University of Auckland
Private Bag 92019
Auckland, NEW ZEALAND
ph  +64 9 3737599 x87908 
fax +64 9 3737468
d.nield@auckland.ac.nz
http://www.esc.auckland.ac.nz/People/Staff/Nield/
Received on Thu Apr 14 19:09:42 2005

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.8 : Thu Apr 14 2005 - 19:09:44 EDT