Re: CT article: Darwinists, not Christians, stonewalling the facts

From: <rfaussette@aol.com>
Date: Fri Apr 01 2005 - 20:49:08 EST

 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Glenn Morton <glennmorton@entouch.net>
To: asa@calvin.edu
Sent: Fri, 1 Apr 2005 17:42:36 -0600
Subject: RE: CT article: Darwinists, not Christians, stonewalling the facts

 
You really aren't following the thread well. I am not complaining about me being ignored. I have been ignored for years and years by both sides and am quite content with it. It does seem that those here on the ASA seem not to understand that most of the people they walk with don't accept evolution.
 
rich:
Most people at one time didn't accept Jesus Christ either. That didn't stop him.
 
 
 
I know you're ignored and once you do understand and your eyes are open, it will be worse because then you will no longer be ignored.
[ASA evolutionists not Glenn Morton]
 
rich:
Roll on the floor as much as you please but take a straight pin and pin my post to your head so you remember it. I described the situation exactly. If you want to save your splintering churches you'll have to get to the bottom of your religion and understand what is to be taken literally and what is not. To do that you'll have to come where I am, so read the post and laugh as much as you like. I'm not arrogant or condescending but I'm absolutely cocksure of what I'm saying and understanding me will help you. Of that I have no doubt, but you've got to understand me first.
 
 
I want to roll on the floor laughing at this. Besides being arrogant and condescending, it is simply laughable. Do you think I really care about whether or not I am ignored? Years ago I gave up on caring about popularity. (some will say I have succeeded magnificently) I have only included me in the previous posts because I didn't want to always be saying that Y'all are ignored. Y'all bewail the YECs but don't lift a finger to counter them suggesting as Don did today that we should not stick around to fight for our beliefs. Y'all run in a crowd that makes it appear as if you views are winning. They aren't. Farmers in China might have thought everything was fine and dandy but this is only because they failed to note that Ghengis Khan was coming south.
 
rich:
You can't fight or counter the YECS. It's not a matter of winning. They may not have science but they have the faith. You have to love them while guiding them from your scientific understanding. But you'll have to speak in parables to the YECS lest you damage their faith with the science they don't understand. What you don't realize is how obvious your mistakes are. The Jewish scholars never wrote the mysteries for the masses. You think Ramban believed the whole Bible literally because you quoted a few of his lines. They clothe them in parables and allegories, just as the Buddhists on the other side of the world clothe their truths in koans and hit adepts with sticks, because they "don't get it," but that doesn't mean you don't minister to them. You minister at their level of apprehension which is why there is so much allegory and parable in the Bible in the first place.
 
 You'll be attacked. Once you know the truth and are attacked you'll long for the days when you were ignored. I came here to help you, but you will not listen. That is why you are losing.
[Glenn Morton]
 
How utterly patronizing. I didn't ask for your help. Why would you arrogantly think you are here to help? ARe you Captain America? (take that as a sign of hostility).
 
rich:
I didn't respond to you personally or offer to help you personally. You're on a list and though you *don't get it* somebody here might. I don't know you. I responded to your comments on the lack of influence you people have among your own. I've already noted your hostility. You can be as hostile and as arrogant as you like. I'm sorry you're unpopular. I offer you Psalm 119:18.
 
 
 This battle will take generations but it must be waged little by little, step by step. The Jews call this tedious process incrementalism, changing a host society one law at a time until it is subjugated. It works the other way around. Changing a host society until it is healthy and free.
Until you know what I know and are ready to act on your knowledge, you will lose, but it is not a readily apprehensible knowledge, and is not likely to be apprehended by the masses, hence your Protestant intellectuals must first have the understanding among themselves and may have to talk in parables to the masses, because that is what parables are for.
 
You are whining because you have a lot of learning to do, it is a new paradigm, and a lot of organizing to recover your churches which are split by the liberal/conservative divide due to the collapse of the old paradigm. Stop whining and get to Jerusalem, my friend. When you think of how ignored you are think of Him on the Cross. It looked like he would be ignored as he hung there at the greatest possible distance from his God but it didn't stop Him and he didn't whine.
[Glenn Morton]
 
I don't know if the 'You' in this note is singular--meaning it is directed to me personally, or plural--meaning it is directed at all here. If it is plural, then I have misunderstood your note. But I think not, so I am not changing the above. AFter all, you re replying to a note from me.
 
rich:
You wrote to the list. I am replying to your note so *everyone* can see my replies. You are mistaken that I was being personal but You were whining, nobody else.
 
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Glenn Morton <glennmorton@entouch.net>
To: asa@calvin.edu
Sent: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 18:43:32 -0600
Subject: RE: CT article: Darwinists, not Christians, stonewalling the facts

I don't know how you got to this letter from mine. The point is, that the fact that the CT article doesn't really give evolutionists (theistic or otherwise) a seat at the table is a good sign of our impotence. It isn't a matter of what should be taught, or even how much historicity is really there. WE ARE IGNORED and there is nothing more damning than being ignored. My observation was simply this:
 
We don't satisfy most people's demand for historicity. I don't care whether you think we shouldn't. And it really doesn't matter what the Jewish approach is. We are in the situation that we are in which is one of being unimportant. You, I and the ASA have all be relegated to a footnote in the history of Christian creation apologetics. The majority of people quized on the issue don't take an evolutionary position. Don't like it? I can't help you. Talking about what others do doesn't seem to solve the plain fact that we theistic evolutionists are irrelevant in the majority of congregations.
 
an afterthought. Maybe the fact that I got your's and Georges responses is why we are losing.
 
Received on Fri Apr 1 20:51:14 2005

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