RE: CT article: Darwinists, not Christians, stonewalling the facts

From: Glenn Morton <>
Date: Fri Apr 01 2005 - 18:42:36 EST


-----Original Message-----
From: [] On
Behalf Of
Sent: Friday, April 01, 2005 7:47 AM
Subject: Re: CT article: Darwinists, not Christians, stonewalling the

Your response is unnecessarily hostile.
I've been studying human behavior and religion since 1973. I went to
college thinking they would add to my knowledge. They were suppressing
it. In 1998, I sent an essay titled Natural Selection and the Nature of
God to the evolutionary psychologist Kevin MacDonald who has established
the new paradigm in 3 volumes and he said my conclusions were basically
correct. I'll be happy to send you a copy of my original essay. Each of
you should have MacDonald's 3 volumes heavily dog-eared in your library.
I attended HBES 2000. Pinker was there. Wright was there. Trivers was
there. Dawkins was there, but I was there to see MacDonald defend his
work and he was attacked shamelessly by Jewish scientists. I saw it. I
journaled it. I can offer you a copy of that. I don't care about
satisfying a demand for historicity. I care for the truth. The truth is
that genesis is allegorical. The Jews who wrote it, say openly in their
texts that the meaning behin d the stories in genesis is allegorical.
Historians like Redford say the story of Joseph is a fiction. But here
you all analyze genesis as if you are in a vacumm and what these Jewish
scholars say about their own texts and historians say is of no account.
Before you can teach anybody, you have to know what the allegories mean
and you have to stop trying to interpret them literally, because the
original Jewish religionists never did!
[Glenn Morton]
I have read chunks of the Talmud. My reading and readings of people like
Nachmanides tell me that they did take it quite literally. They didn't
always add up the numbers to come to a 6000 year old earth (although
some did), but they did think it told exactly how God created the
If you're ignored, its because a lot of money is being devoted to
obscuring the real truth by the very religionists whose texts you don't
understand. You people are ignored because you really haven't caught on
to the fact that a lot of people don't want you to catch on. You know
your present understanding is rationally untenable but you refuse to
interpret some of the texts allegorically. Your unbelief is your own
undoing. You are ignored? Isn't that what you've been doing to me? Isn't
that the attitude that reeks from your response? How dare this person
enter into our discussion.
[Glenn Morton]
You really aren't following the thread well. I am not complaining about
me being ignored. I have been ignored for years and years by both sides
and am quite content with it. It does seem that those here on the ASA
seem not to understand that most of the people they walk with don't
accept evolution.
I know you're ignored and once you do understand and your eyes are open,
it will be worse because then you will no longer be ignored.
[Glenn Morton]
I want to roll on the floor laughing at this. Besides being arrogant and
condescending, it is simply laughable. Do you think I really care about
whether or not I am ignored? Years ago I gave up on caring about
popularity. (some will say I have succeeded magnificently) I have only
included me in the previous posts because I didn't want to always be
saying that Y'all are ignored. Y'all bewail the YECs but don't lift a
finger to counter them suggesting as Don did today that we should not
stick around to fight for our beliefs. Y'all run in a crowd that makes
it appear as if you views are winning. They aren't. Farmers in China
might have thought everything was fine and dandy but this is only
because they failed to note that Ghengis Khan was coming south.
 You'll be attacked. Once you know the truth and are attacked you'll
long for the days when you were ignored. I came here to help you, but
you will not listen. That is why you are losing.
[Glenn Morton]
How utterly patronizing. I didn't ask for your help. Why would you
arrogantly think you are here to help? ARe you Captain America? (take
that as a sign of hostility).
 This battle will take generations but it must be waged little by
little, step by step. The Jews call this tedious process incrementalism,
changing a host society one law at a time until it is subjugated. It
works the other way around. Changing a host society until it is healthy
and free.
Until you know what I know and are ready to act on your knowledge, you
will lose, but it is not a readily apprehensible knowledge, and is not
likely to be apprehended by the masses, hence your Protestant
intellectuals must first have the understanding among themselves and may
have to talk in parables to the masses, because that is what parables
are for.
You are whining because you have a lot of learning to do, it is a new
paradigm, and a lot of organizing to recover your churches which are
split by the liberal/conservative divide due to the collapse of the old
paradigm. Stop whining and get to Jerusalem, my friend. When you think
of how ignored you are think of Him on the Cross. It looked like he
would be ignored as he hung there at the greatest possible distance from
his God but it didn't stop Him and he didn't whine.
[Glenn Morton]
I don't know if the 'You' in this note is singular--meaning it is
directed to me personally, or plural--meaning it is directed at all
here. If it is plural, then I have misunderstood your note. But I think
not, so I am not changing the above. AFter all, you re replying to a
note from me.
-----Original Message-----
From: Glenn Morton <>
Sent: Thu, 31 Mar 2005 18:43:32 -0600
Subject: RE: CT article: Darwinists, not Christians, stonewalling the

I don't know how you got to this letter from mine. The point is, that
the fact that the CT article doesn't really give evolutionists (theistic
or otherwise) a seat at the table is a good sign of our impotence. It
isn't a matter of what should be taught, or even how much historicity is
really there. WE ARE IGNORED and there is nothing more damning than
being ignored. My observation was simply this:
We don't satisfy most people's demand for historicity. I don't care
whether you think we shouldn't. And it really doesn't matter what the
Jewish approach is. We are in the situation that we are in which is one
of being unimportant. You, I and the ASA have all be relegated to a
footnote in the history of Christian creation apologetics. The majority
of people quized on the issue don't take an evolutionary position.
Don't like it? I can't help you. Talking about what others do doesn't
seem to solve the plain fact that we theistic evolutionists are
irrelevant in the majority of congregations.
an afterthought. Maybe the fact that I got your's and Georges responses
is why we are losing.
Received on Fri Apr 1 18:43:40 2005

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