RE: The Curse - Upon All Creation or Just Mankind?

From: Alexanian, Moorad <alexanian@uncw.edu>
Date: Fri Sep 24 2004 - 21:40:01 EDT

Human death is necessary in order for man to enter into an eternal relationship with God in a way that human cannot neither conceive nor understand. In that sense death cannot be "inherently evil." The evil component of death is that it came about through man's disobedience, viz., by man following the fallen Lucifer rather than God.
 
Moorad

________________________________

From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu on behalf of jack syme
Sent: Fri 9/24/2004 6:32 PM
To: Jim Armstrong
Cc: ASA
Subject: Re: The Curse - Upon All Creation or Just Mankind?

I am a Christian physician, a neurologist to be exact. I also chair a couple of hospital ethics committees, and have a lot of training specifically in medical ethics.
 
As a neurologist, I deal with end of life decisions frequently, and, even more interestingly, with what the definition of death is, and what consciousness is.
 
But I rarely feel "adrift". I have worked through most of these issues long ago. I think the answer to: " is human death inherently evil", is clearly no. But I dont know if that really has anything to do with my clarity about decisions in this matter, as much as it has to do with societal and ultimately Christian values, of autonomy , beneficence, and non maleficence.

        ----- Original Message -----
        From: Jim Armstrong <mailto:jarmstro@qwest.net>
        Cc: ASA <mailto:asa@calvin.edu>
        Sent: Friday, September 24, 2004 4:27 PM
        Subject: Re: The Curse - Upon All Creation or Just Mankind?

        That's an important question to examine because the conclusions have such a strong practical bearing on biggie discussions on important stuff like end-of-life matters and stem cell research (for starters). It's a daunting question to explore in an environment where some are all too ready to leap to their feet with an instant affirmative answer. But I think the answer is "no". In any case, a thoughtful exploration of this question is appropriate and timely and very important.
        
        Just to mention one issue, the present fairly widespread opinion (embodying the "yes" answer to your question) seems to leave Christian doctors and families who face life or death decisions pretty much adrift in a special kind of isolation with their decision(s). And, faced with making some kind of decision, all too often any choice made will be wrong to some very well-meaning people. Something seems to be amiss.
        
        I think the answer (which took a long time to get to), "no". I touched on some of the rationale in a previous post or two.
        An excellent question you pose. But there is one embedded question that asks whether death by old age is really different in any significant way from death by identifiable, treatable disease? Still, an excellent question.
        
        Or so it seemeth to me... JimA
        
        
        Sheila Wilson wrote:
        

                One of the four options presented by David Campbell, aka Uncle Joe, says: "Death of animals is not inherently a moral evil." This leads me to the following question: is the physical death of man inherently evil? (Assuming death by old age, of course.) I believe this is the most correct option of the four given.
                 
                Sheila
                 

                bivalve <bivalve@mail.davidson.alumlink.com> <mailto:bivalve@mail.davidson.alumlink.com> wrote:

> The real question is whether death occurred before the fall. The Bible doesn't say. Inferring that death didn't occur because God said His creation was good is probably wrong. Death is often referred to as a good thing; for example, a seed must be buried in the ground and die before a new plant is grown and we must die to self (crucify our flesh) in order to be obedient to God. Inferring that nothing ever died before the fall is also false because God promised seed time and harvest will never cease as long as the earth endures (Genesis 8:22).
>
> What is the answer? Can we even discover the answer in this age?
                        
                        Paleontological evidence clearly indicates the death of animals (including predation) long before the existence of humans.
                        
                        At least four explanations exist:
                        
                        Paleontological evidence is incorrect.
                        
                        Death of animals is not inh erently a moral evil.
                        
                        Satan's fall was allowed to affect animals.
                        
                        The state of the world reflected humanity's future fall (cf. salvation of OT believers before Jesus' earthly life).
                        
                        Dr. David Campbell
                        Old Seashells
                        University of Alabama
                        Biodiversity & Systematics
                        Dept. Biological Sciences
                        Box 870345
                        Tuscaloosa, AL 35487-0345 USA
                        bivalve@mail.davidson.alumlink.com
                        
                        That is Uncle Joe, taken in the masonic regalia of a Grand Exalted Periwinkle of the Mystic Order of Whelks-P.G. Wodehouse, Romance at Droitgate Spa
                        
                        

                Sheila McGinty Wilson
                sheila-wilson@sbcglobal.net
Received on Fri Sep 24 21:59:38 2004

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