Re: The Curse - Upon All Creation or Just Mankind?

From: jack syme <drsyme@cablespeed.com>
Date: Wed Sep 22 2004 - 21:20:46 EDT

Wow Mike I am impressed!

I will send you, privately, some in depth analysis when I can get it about
that passage. It is not too different than what you say here, but takes the
interpretation that it is referring to the old testament saints. Those
waiting under the altar in Revelation.

----- Original Message -----
From: "Mike Tharp" <mtharp@exammaster.com>
To: "'AmericanScientificAffiliation'" <asa@calvin.edu>
Sent: Wednesday, September 22, 2004 9:03 PM
Subject: RE: The Curse - Upon All Creation or Just Mankind?

> "Let us not forget that Lucifer fell before man. Doesn't that come into
the
> picture?"
>
> Good point, Moorad. I hadn't even considered that. However, I don't
> believe the fall of Lucifer brought a curse upon the rest of creation.
> Nowhere does Scripture seem to indicate this. Not that I'm aware of
anyway.
> It wasn't until the fall of man that God cursed the ground in Genesis
3:17.
>
> I've also taken another look at Romans 8:22 in light of Jack Syme's
> comments. I tend to agree that, within that context, it does not seem to
> indicate the entire creation, but "creatures", and even more specifically,
> "human creatures". A verse to back this up would be Mark 16:15 where the
> word in question, ktisis, is undoubtedly referring to unredeemed humans as
> we obviously wouldn't proclaim the gospel to the earth or other animals.
> However, the word ktisis is also used in Romans 1:20 to refer to the
entire
> creation. So I don't think we can be 100% certain what Romans 8:22 is
> referring to.
>
> In Christ,
> Mike
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Alexanian, Moorad [mailto:alexanian@uncw.edu]
> Sent: Saturday, September 18, 2004 5:21 PM
> To: jack syme; Mike Tharp; AmericanScientificAffiliation
> Subject: RE: The Curse - Upon All Creation or Just Mankind?
>
> Let us not forget that Lucifer fell before man. Doesn't that come into the
> picture?
>
> Moorad
>
> ________________________________
>
> From: asa-owner@lists.calvin.edu on behalf of jack syme
> Sent: Sat 9/18/2004 4:09 PM
> To: Mike Tharp; 'AmericanScientificAffiliation'
> Subject: Re: The Curse - Upon All Creation or Just Mankind?
>
>
>
> "But if there was
> disease and bloodshed prior to the Fall, I don't see how God could call
that
> "very good". Then again, if there was death and suffering before the fall
> and God called it "very good", who am I to argue with him?"
>
>
> This measurement of "very good" is as subjective a measurement as I can
> think of. I look at the universe and the creation, and it seems to me to
be
> "very good" now, after the fall. Other than mankinds cruelty to other
men,
> what about the post fall creation do you think is not very good?
>
> Similarly the passage in Romans about the creation groaning? I dont have
> the time or resources to go over that now, but preterists interpret
> creation, in that passage, as old testament saints. They were waiting for
> redemption.
>
>
>
>
>
Received on Wed Sep 22 21:38:17 2004

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.8 : Wed Sep 22 2004 - 21:38:18 EDT