Re: RE: Gay Marriage/Homosexuality

From: John W Burgeson <>
Date: Thu Jun 10 2004 - 10:47:45 EDT

Moorad wrote, in part:

" If following to homosexual path is not a choice, then what is it?"

This much I know. I am personally acquainted with a number of gay/lesbian
persons. All of them, to the best of my knowledge, affirm that their
sexual orientation was not their choice.

This much I think I know. Having read a lot on this subject, on both
sides, there is almost unanimous agreement (on both sides) that, at least
in most cases, a person is gay or lesbian not based on choice. Whether
the reason be nature or nurture, or some combination thereof, is still in

I happen to think nature is the likely source, as I have eight children,
three adopted, one of which is a lesbian. I don't recall treating her
differently than the other eight during her childhood. She was the oldest
girl child, and had a lot of care person chores for her younger siblings
while growing up. She was also precocious -- became a Christian at age 3
or 4 and knew why.

Moorad continues: " Why can’t a criminal use the same argument?"

He can, of course. But that would not be an excuse, of course, for here
we have a clearly defined "sin." You keep missing the point, Moorad. The
debate is whether (or not) same-gender sexual intimacy, when performed as
part of a loving domestic relationship between two adults, is a sin. We
usually think of different-gender sexual intimacy as being OK when part
of a loving domestic relationship, but not otherwise. Why the difference?

Moorad again: "You know very well than one day our knowledge of the
scientific description of a human will be so advanced that we can
indicate the actions that are most likely in any individual. Does that
invalidate the notion of sin and free will?"

Of course not. But your premise is that since all gay/lesbian sex is
"sin," an individual ought to be willing to abstain. If I bought your
premise, I'd agree with your conclusion. But I don't agree with your
premise, so your conclusion is moot.

Moorad again: "I think knowing people that do not share our views and
choices will make us love each other more not eliminate the notion of
what sin is."

OK. I'll agree.

Moorad: " Let us not forget that we are all sinners. The sins of the
flesh are not the worst. Pride is the apex of all sins."

Yeah, yeah and maybe. Certainly pride is a "bad" thing. I don't know that
it is the "apex."

I immediately thought of an early scientist, Cleopatra. Cleo was keenly
interested in the reproductive process. Her experiments involved the
killing and dissection of her female slaves to see how the fetus
developed. Of course, to do so was her "right," as she was the state. I
have difficulty seeing her actions as less sinful than pride.

Moorad: "Therefore, some of us are more offensive in the eyes of God than
homosexuals are."

Again, you affirm the consequent, assuming your position is the "right"
one. I find that offensive.

But not you, yourself. "I hate your sin, but I love you." <G>



This week's quip: I used to be indecisive. Now I'm not so sure.

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Received on Thu Jun 10 11:41:14 2004

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