Fw: RE: Gay Marriage/Homosexuality

From: John W Burgeson <jwburgeson@juno.com>
Date: Wed Jun 09 2004 - 13:09:07 EDT

Moorad posted:

"Christ indicated what love is when He said; €śA new commandment I give
to you, that you love one another, even as I have loved you, that you
also love one another. John 13:34. Christ’s love was essentially
sacrificial and humans can emulate that to a certain extent."


"Some have taken such verses to indicate that Christ had a homosexual
relationship with the one or more of the apostles."

I have read some of those arguments. They are quite unpersuasive.

"Such people are trying to justify their following their natural
tendencies so that others will find their behavior acceptable."

You ascribe a motivation to them. I did not know that you were God and
could discern such things.

"However, the criminal can do the same. The criminal can say that he was
born that way and so he is justified in following his natural

That argument is just plain silly.

"Note that both the homosexual and the criminal are breaking God’s law.
God is offended by their actions. We also ought to be offended since we
were created in His image."

This argument is, of course, an example of the fallacy of "affirming the
consequent." Sine the issue under discussion is the question of whether
ALL same-gender intimacy is, ipso facto, "sin," it does not advance a
debate by affirming loudly one's position on that question.

"The following letter was published in The News & Observer (Raleigh, NC)"

I'll comment selectively.

"Unnatural acts "

Sets the tone by the title. Fallacy of the persuasive adjective.

"In defense of "tolerance," a Feb. 14 letter-writer disparagingly
referred to our society as "homophobic" and wrongly affirmed the
"naturalness" of a homosexual orientation. Our nation was founded on the
Christian faith and many of our policies, e.g., Abstinence Until
Marriage, are based on Christian teachings and morality."

Or on cultural teachings, often conflated with "Christian."

"We are forewarned in Scripture, according to the New American Standard
Bible translation, that "neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor
adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals, nor thieves, nor the
covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the
kingdom of God." Must we, therefore, consider all such acts as natural
and give hearty approval to those who practice them?"

What we MUST do is study these things seriously. This means reading
material by people with whom we do not agree. I have a lot of material on
my site of this nature. Have you ever read any of that material?

The word "homosexuals" in the above is a clear mis-translation. The word
"fornicators" in the above is a probable mistranslation.

"Diversity is really based on knowing that each one of us is created in
the image of God, the Creator referred to in our Declaration of

Even a blind pig finds an acorn sometimes. I will agree with this.

"Tolerance and knowledge of who we are is best practiced when we "love
the sinner and hate the sin."

To do that, one has to be really really sure the "sin" really is one.

Two scenarios, Moorad.

1. ALL same-gender intimacy is a sin (your position).

You and I die the same day and arrive at the GATE together. Joint

God: "Burgy, your position was wrong."
Me: "Sorry." I tried."
God: "Yes, you did."

God: "Moorad, your position was right."
Moorad: "Thanks."
God: "I was not saying that in approval. You did not try to understand;
you just took your position on someone else's say-so.

God: "Come on in, both of you. You are saved by my Grace."

2. Same-gender intimacy, as performed in a loving domestic adult
relationship, is not a sin. (my position).

God: "Burgy, you got that one right, at least."
Me: "I tried. I was always in doubt."
God: "Doubt was always in my plan."

God" "Moorad, you position was wrong."
Moorad: "Sorry."
God: "That's OK.

God: "Come on in, both of you. You are saved by my grace."


The best thing to hit the Internet in years - Juno SpeedBand!
Surf the Web up to FIVE TIMES FASTER!
Only $14.95/ month - visit www.juno.com to sign up today!
Received on Wed Jun 9 13:38:16 2004

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.8 : Wed Jun 09 2004 - 13:38:17 EDT