Re: Fw: Pharaoh and his hardened heart

From: D. F. Siemens, Jr. <>
Date: Fri Jun 04 2004 - 19:43:36 EDT

Sorry, but I see no way to respond rationally to the claims made without
writing a couple of books--whose message would almost certainly not be
accepted. There are too many unnecessary physicalistic and literalistic
presuppositions. It's obvious to me that the first distinction I made was
totally missed. As I see it, the later question about language is akin to
the rejection of Trinitarian language because the term does not occur in
scripture. Further, the matters seem to me to abandon any connection to
science for philosophy and theology. So I feel I must let the matter

On Fri, 04 Jun 2004 12:30:49 -0600 Innovatia <>
From: D. F. Siemens, Jr.
The only way I can figure to make a distinction between God-in-eternity
and God-in-history to meet your requirements is to go back to a
Neo-Platonic emanationism or a similar Gnostic view. But multiple
degenerating deities (and evil matter) is hardly Christian.
If you accept that scripture presents God as both transcending creation
and immanent in it, then it is the same difference.
As for if it ain't Greek its got to be medievals lousing things up, this
looks like the same approach I rejected in the other line. The fact is
that there is no ecumenical pronouncement on the divine omniscience.
Indeed, there are only a few peripheral persons who rejected God's total
omniscience. Why? The simplest explanation is that no one of any account
had any doubts on the topic: they all accepted it unconditionally. Note
that it was areas of major dispute that brought forth councils to produce
authoritative pronouncements.
Then where, David, did you get this language?

I do not find omniscience in scripture, nor do I find imperial
Christianity a credible source of authority. I do not find this language
anywhere in the non-papal church of the past, which was by no means

The problem with this kind of omni-x language is that it creates logical
absurdities that scripture does not. It seems to me to fit a manner of
reasoning found among the Greeks more than the Hebrews, whatever the
origin onf the word.


Dennis Feucht
Received on Fri Jun 4 20:06:07 2004

This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.8 : Fri Jun 04 2004 - 20:06:08 EDT