Re: Fw: Shapes of a Wedge

From: Innovatia <>
Date: Fri May 28 2004 - 15:38:12 EDT

From: "D. F. Siemens, Jr." <>

> Dennis,
> Your first paragraph runs into trouble with I Peter 2:13ff; Titus 3:1;
> Romans 13:1ff. Only when the state directly demands disobedience to God's
> command (where is the express command about marriage?) is one to reject
> the state and take the penalty. I have not encountered a passage that
> advocates anarchy, though there are some that describe near anarchy.

Agreed about anarchy. The two govt texts you cited clearly affirm a certain
kind of govt, one which upholds God's law - i.e., punishes evil, encourages

In going beyond its biblical bounds, the State conflicts directly with
Deuteronomy 4:2:

Deut. 4:2 (ESV)
    You shall not add to the word that I command you, nor take from it, that
you may keep the commandments of the Lord your God that I command you.

and Deut. 12:32:

Deut. 12:32 (ESV)
     "Everything that I command you, you shall be careful to do. You shall
not add to it or take from it.

> This, with not "taking away from or adding to his law" means that you are
> disobeying God if you do not stone adulterers or homosexuals. I expect
> you, therefore, to stone to death the next individuals you know involved
> in either of these sins and to accept the condemnation and legal penalty
> for the first degree murder.

Biblical law for Christians applies as it is understood in view of the
gospel. There may be grounds for forgiveness. All the same, a truly biblical
government would uphold the whole counsel of God, not selectively, as befits
our contemporaneous moral sensibilities. As Paul says, the govt does not
bear the sword in vain.

> Are you wrong in selectively citing scripture and twisting it to your
> intent, deliberately disobedient, or it was nice to know you?

I don't follow this, Dave. Where is the twisting? The scriptures do say, do
they not, that we are to follow Christ, not the world-system as manifested
in ungodly behavior of government instututions? And do we not do that by
taking heed to God's revealed will in scripture? That is basically my

I have spent considerable time the last few years studying the various ways
in which we as Christians are entangled with the institutions of American
society, and my conclusion is that that these relationships are long overdue
for a careful review - which is part 2 of XLM, by the way.


Dennis Feucht
Received on Fri May 28 16:31:04 2004

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