Re: Fw: Fw: Pharaoh and his hardened heart

From: D. F. Siemens, Jr. <>
Date: Fri May 21 2004 - 19:15:46 EDT

I see a slip here. You assume that the God who interacts with the future
has to be _in_ time, for this alone makes the eternal (non-temporal)
deity not know the future. An eternal decision for the unfolding
space-time creation is surely as active as one that is made on the spur
of the moment. This gets tied in with the claim that, if God knows it, he
causes it. But it should be obvious to all that knowing is not the same
as causing. I also keep running across the silly notion that what is past
is necessary. But, if an event was contingent when predicted, it remains
contingent after the fact. It is true on happening, not necessary.

As for the deity in time, incarnate, note that it involved _kenosis_ and
becoming a slave. I note that the slave is not party to the master's
knowledge of plans--except as told to do something.
On Wed, 19 May 2004 23:11:48 -0600 Innovatia <>
Unlike some of his later fans, I do not see in Calvin a reductionism that
opts for divine determinism at the expense of human free will. A God who
knows the future AND interacts with it is consequently a God who does not
know the future, at least not in the person doing the interacting. As I
dimly see it, trinitarian doctrine allows for God to both know the future
from the reference-frame of eternity, seeing the whole of space-time
before him as a given fact (as you intimate above), while God-in-time can
interact with us in the incarnation and consequently not know what
God-in-eternity knows, as the incarnate Son himself admitted in
Vaya con Dios,

Dennis Feucht
Received on Fri May 21 19:18:31 2004

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