Re: A Peace Proposal

From: Roger G. Olson <>
Date: Sun Feb 01 2004 - 12:31:06 EST

I don't want to pile on here, but I have a personal anecdote regarding the
intentional deception of a YEC apologist. Some Sunday evening in winter
1990, a physics prof. from a (quite fundamentalist) Christian college
spoke to our church. He was a higher-up in the CRC (Creation Research
Society), but I'll withhold his name here for now out of respect. He
presented a slide show and pushed the YEC message of a literal
interpretation of bible being consistent with true science. However, one
of slides was of the Paluxy beds (dinosaur and supposed human footprints
together). During the Q&A, he was called on this by an audience member
who pointed out that this had been shown to be an incorrect interpretation
-- that in fact the "human" footprints were really an incomplete dino
print. The speaker, hem and hawed, had to agree with the questioner, then
finally responded that "well, but there's plenty of other evidence for the
'biblical' view (even if the Paluxy stuff was incorrect)." I thought at
the time this was pretty slimy -- he thought he could put one over on an
audience of just plain church folk.

At that time I still my doubts about origins. I really WANTED the ye
"biblical" approach to be true -- it sure is a lot "easier" to swallow for
those like me who were brought up in a fundamentalist/evangelical
tradition. But this incident stuck in my mind, and it was certainly
disturbing -- kinda like hearing a preacher cuss. :-)

BTW, the church was an Evangelical Free Church, which is not known to be
overly fundamentalist -- more mainstream evangelical.
Just my 2c.


> A interesting three responses from Wally George and Glenn.
> Yes George I Was thinking of hard core YEC writers - all your standard
> ones
> from US, UK and Oz who seem pathologically incapable of being upright and
> fair and honest. I do not envy them on the Day of Judgement.
> I think many YEC followers are because they do not know of any better
> arguments and think Wise and Austin a just a few of many YEC geologists
> and
> that because they have put a poster up at a geophysics conference they
> must
> be good. They are like some students I taught at Wheaton, whom another
> student said they and she were brainwashed. As Glenn says they are not
> without blame
> Glenn is to the point but Wally needs to consider their whole approach of
> distortion and character assassination. If that is in any way Christian
> then
> I am an atheist and proud of it. (and Socrates will remember that ands use
> it against me!)
> Michael
> Original Message -----
> From: "wallyshoes" <>
> To: "Michael Roberts" <>
> Cc: "John W Burgeson" <>; <>
> Sent: Sunday, February 01, 2004 1:41 AM
> Subject: Re: A Peace Proposal
>> Michael Roberts wrote:
>> > In a way I agree with Burgy's peace proposal but sadly one or two
>> things
> are
>> > needed first.
>> >
>> > 1) One should always take someone else's faith commitment at face
>> value
> and
>> > not charge them with being liberal or fundamentalist with out very
>> good
>> > reason.
>> > Thr worst offenders are those who refer to others as "supposed
> evangelicals"
>> > or some similar phrase. On the theology web Socrates rubbishes Hugh
>> Ross
> and
>> > his fellow AIGer Mortenson is obnoxious about Dave Young "who has
> mislead
>> > many".
>> > There is also a difference between rubbishing and disagreeing. I
> disagree
>> > with A on homosexuality and B on the person of Christ and am prepared
>> to
>> > argue with them but not rubbish them. (But I cant resist humour which
>> > doesn't always go down!)
>> > 2) A rigorous honesty in representing the case of someone else. I fear
> that
>> > in some cases winning the argument is more important than being
>> honest.
>> > By being honest I do not mean being 100% accurate as we all make
> mistakes or
>> > are in error, but not distorting either wilfully or negligently.
>> > I have read posts on this listserve which I consider to be seriously
>> in
>> > error, but the person made them in absolute honesty and integrity.
>> > Unfortunately I cannot say that about most YEC writing. That means
>> that
> even
>> > a truce is well nigh impossible-
>> >
>> > Surely no Christian could object to this
>> I am one who does!
>> I think that many of them have every bit as much integrity as you do,
> Michael.
>> Walt
>> ===================================
>> Walt Hicks <>
>> In any consistent theory, there must
>> exist true but not provable statements.
>> (Godel's Theorem)
>> You can only find the truth with logic
>> If you have already found the truth
>> without it. (G.K. Chesterton)
>> ===================================

Roger G. Olson, Ph.D.
Associate Professor of Mathematics and Environmental Science
Saint Joseph's College
Rensselaer, IN 47978
(219) 866-6295
Received on Sun Feb 1 12:31:19 2004

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