Re: NT truth (formerly inerrancy?)

From: wallyshoes <wallyshoes@mindspring.com>
Date: Fri Jan 02 2004 - 09:11:35 EST

Nicely put, Sheila. I must introduce you to the Wally Hicks theory of
Christianity Exams (not yet published in PSCF). According to this
theory, God will ultimately give all Christians the following exam.
Point scores for correct answers are shown in parentheses after each
question. It is a good idea to study scripture for the correct answer to
each question.

1.) How old is the universe? (0)
2.) How old is the earth? (0)
3.) How exactly did God Create life on Earth? (0)
4.) How exactly did God create man (evolution or intervention)? (0)
5.) How many gallons of oil does one dinosaur make (you may substitute
"one giant redwood tree")? (0)
6.) Is Jesus Christ your Lord and Savior? (100)

;)

Walt

P.S. This seems familiar. I may have (unintentionally) stolen it from
someone.

Sheila Wilson wrote:

> Lurker D, In the email I clarified that this went beyond the young
> earth/old earth creation (YEC/OEC). Being a geologist, I agree that
> all the evidence points to an earth much, much older than six thousand
> years. I prefer the billions of year old position myself but I
> honestly don't know for sure. The point of the email is that all
> science must be interpreted through God's word and through God because
> He is the absolute truth. Anything less would be heresy. As we all
> know, the Bible is not clear on the age of the earth despite what some
> people proclaim. The Bible is clear on the life, death, and
> resurrection of Jesus Christ. He is our focus all of the time.
> Debating the age of the earth is fun but, despite YEC claims, our
> belief system and salvation are not hinged on what we believe about
> the age of the earth. I personally have found that despite my belief
> in an old earth, the status of my salvation has not changed nor has my
> relationship with God. I have found that the more I seek the truth,
> my relationship with God grows deeper. Sheila
>
> sweitzer@bee.net wrote:
>
> -------
> --------------------------------------------------------------
>
> Some comments from a lurker:
>
> ****** Sheila posted:
> 2 Timothy 3:16-17 All Scripture is God-breathed and is
> useful for teaching,
> rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness, so that
> the man of God
> may be thoroughly equipped for every good work.
>
> ****** "D. F. Siemens, Jr." responded:
> Sheila,
> This verse speaks primarily, if not totally, of morality. It
> mentions
> nothing about scientific or historical correctness in the
> modern sense. It
> is taken as a proof text for infallibility, but this is
> eisegesis.
> Dave
>
>
> ****Sheila responded:
> This is not eisegesis - a rather new and
> > > exciting word to me personally. The
> > > chapter (2 Timothy 3) does speak
> > > primarily of morality and truth:
>
> > > v.7: "always learning but n! ever able to acknowledge
> the truth."
>
> > > The truth is not some ephemeral concept that
> > > changes with the whims of man. Jesus
> > > Christ said He was the way, the truth,
> > > and the life. Truth is based on God
> > > alone. Truth is determined by God and for
> > > God in all things; therefore, truth also
> > > applies to science, history, and the Bible.
>
> > > Whether we know or acknowledge the truth,
> > > truth does not change. Because God is
> > > not a man that He should lie and all
>
> I see no support here for God being allowed to lie through
> his creation.
> And all around us, we see a creation that looks very, very
> old.
>
> > > scripture is God-breathed, then we must
> > > interpret everything, including science,
> > > through scripture AND through God.
> > > Remember, I do not have the answers.
> > > This is much more broad than young/old
> > > e! arth creation or evolution or anything
> > > else. I know the Bible is interpreted
> > > many different ways but any way that we
> > > think is correct must align with
> > > scripture. This includes science.
>
> I see the problem with the YEC position is that they are
> interpreting
> scripture and God with a strong & unrecognized set of
> preconceptions. IMO,
> the role of the YEC leadership (i.e., those driving the
> debate, not those in
> the pew nodding in agreement) is like that of the
> traditionalist clergy at
> the time of the reformation who regarded church tradition as
> an equal (or
> greater) authority to scriptures. They have deified their
> image of God,
> limited him to their own understanding, and demand that
> others think in the
> same way.
>
> > > The very next chapter (2 Timothy 4) says
> > > in v. 3-5:
> > > "For the time will come when men will not
> > > put up with sound doctrine. Instead, to
> &! gt; > suit their own desires, they will gather
> > > around them a great number of teachers to
> > > say what their itching ears want to hear.
> > > They will turn their ears away from the
> > > truth and turn aside to myths. But you,
> > > keep your head in all situations, endure
>
> To be blunt, I don't see Young Earth Creationism as sound
> doctrine, but
> rather the accumulation of centurys of tradition. Modern
> science has
> uncovered a wealth of facts which contradict YEC
> conclusions, and their
> response has been to twist scientific data to suit their
> desires.
>
> Many ears itch for a prophetic voice of 'thus saith the
> lord', and the YEC
> leadership steps up to provide it. People can sit back in
> their pew feeling
> smug and thinking that their god is big enough to make the
> earth in 6000
> years and that scientists who think otherwise are merely
> deluded. But the
> fact is that it takes a far bigger God than the one in their
> box ! to create
> the world with natural processes (including evolution).
>
> Sorry to be so blunt in speaking the truth in love, but
> (IMO) this verse
> cuts againts the YEC position, not for it!
>
> Grace & peace,
>
> D
>
> Sheila McGinty Wilson
> sheila-wilson@sbcglobal.net

--
===================================
Walt Hicks <wallyshoes@mindspring.com>
In any consistent theory, there must
exist true but not provable statements.
(Godel's Theorem)
You can only find the truth with logic
If you have already found the truth
without it. (G.K. Chesterton)
===================================
Received on Fri Jan 2 09:12:25 2004

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