Re: creation & sabbath (Was Re: Questions to Allen Roy)

From: George Murphy (
Date: Mon Sep 29 2003 - 16:27:13 EDT

  • Next message: Jack Haas: "Re: It's Out!" wrote:
    > In a message dated 9/29/03 8:18:59 AM Eastern Daylight Time,
    > writes:
    > > I have said nothing about Buddhism, about which my knowledge is limited. I
    > > do
    > > know something about gnosticism, in the sense in which the word is used to
    > > describe
    > > religious movements in the Mediterranean world in the early centuries of the
    > > Christian
    > > era. Characteristic beliefs of these movements were that the physical world
    > > was some
    > > sort of inferior production of a lesser deity, and that salvation came
    > > through knowledge
    > > (hence the name) which would enable our true selves to be freed from the
    > > world. Of
    > > course I state this in very general terms: There was a wide variety of
    > > gnostic ideas.
    > >
    > > Shalom,
    > > George
    > >
    > >
    > Yes, there was a wide variety of gnostic ideas, but the gnosis far predates
    > Christianity, is in fact well developed in the rg veda and features in genesis.
    > and I don't think we are talking about the same thing - the gnosis is an
    > ontology - gnosticism is a philosophy - you are talking about gnosticism - I am
    > talking about a state of being. The gnosis faces reality squarely - the
    > suggestion that it is a denial of the world is incorrect, for the eastern or western
    > varieties. There may be a wide variety of gnostic ideas and philosphizing
    > about the nature of gnosis, but there is only one gnosis.
    > "I am not using the term gnosis as merely to the tenets of certain gnostic
    > sects which were more or less in evidence in the early centuries of the
    > christian era, but I am using it in connection with a definite super knowledge which
    > can be traced back to the remotest ages and the oldest scriptures of which
    > we have any literary records. That is the sense in which the term was
    > originally understood." William Kingsland - The gnosis or ancient wisdom in the
    > christian scriptures. Quest 1970
    > italics are the author's

            Sure, "gnosticism" can be used in a very general sense for any religion or
    philosophy which emphasizes /gnosis/, knowledge. Clement of Alexandria, e.g., called
    Christianity the true gnosis. Perhaps I should have capitalized the word, though that
    wuld not have removed all ambiguity. For the common usage which I assumed see, e.g.,
    the article "Gnosticism" by R. McL. Wilson in _The Westminster Dictionary of Christian
    Theology_. /Inter alia/, "the developed Gnosticism begins by rejecting the world itself
    as evil"


    George L. Murphy

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