Re: Questions to Allen Roy

From: Walter Hicks (
Date: Mon Sep 22 2003 - 23:10:33 EDT

  • Next message: allenroy: "Re: One more thing"

    Glenn Morton wrote:

    > I simply said they are wrong. That is not condeming all YECs. Can you tell
    > me a YEC who is correct in their views? If not, then Walter drop this silly
    > line. I said they were wrong, they were doing harm to the faith and unless
    > you can point me to a factually correct YEC, I will stand on that view. If
    > all 'Italians' are wrong, then it isn't wrong to say so. Get over it.

    I will repeat what I have said many times. You can laugh at it and belittle it,
    but just shows an unwillingness on your part to think out of your own self
    constructed box.

    I do a lot of simulations for various things. The original simulated
    environment is difficult but I get to use it many times over. It would be
    ridiculous for me to to start from scratch each time.

    Now, none of us on this list, despite all the pontificating, know diddle about
    God's environment and His nature. If he wanted to pay some special attention to
    a group of beings that He called "man", it is perfectly possible for Him to
    start the works 6000 years ago with the a background simulation already in
    place. That is basically what some think the Bible says that he did. This
    would not negate anything that you ever said about finding your fossils and oil
    and whatnot.

    Now this would not fit your preconceived notions of God so you reject by saying
    it makes God a liar. And others say that your interpretation of the Bible makes
    God a liar. Liar, liar, pants on fire -- boy what an intellectual battle!

    What I have presented is consistent with a literal interpretation of Genesis
    and a young earth theory. I do not like it philosophically but that is a choice
    not a scientific conclusion.

    People who hold to this view would well be justified in saying that evolution
    is not the source of the human race. God created man as a special act,
    regardless of what else He set up in the "universe with history" ---- and He
    does not lie. The Bible tells us what He did. This universe would be as real a
    universe as if he had let it run for 15 billion years prior to now! No
    scientific test could tell the difference and you have admitted that many

    The strong point of this outlook is that it does not required the convoluted
    reasoning that you publish to reconcile your viewpoint of the Bible versus a
    more literal interpretation. I know that you don't like this and maybe it is
    because it makes your lengthy presentations a house of cards.

    So THAT is a YEC viewpoint that I have heard expressed and I think that it as
    valid as anything you have ever offered.

    I, with you, hate what Burgy calls the "Liars for Jesus" group who construct
    false science. But that is no excuse for grouping all YECs together in their
    camp. It would make more sense for you to identify your real enemy and stop
    jousting at your own strawman. Attack the head of the monster, not every troop
    that you meet. I wager that your web presentations loose as many Christians as
    YECism ever did.

    I think, Glenn, that _you_ are the one who needs to "get over it" and adopt a
    new strategy.

    Stamp out the ICR and AIG and the monster will fall.

    Learn to present evolution in an Christian fashion, instead of ridiculing those
    who do not accept what you call facts and Christians may change their minds.




    I have read your post at

    And I see little correlation between "young earth" and any of the stated
    reasons for becoming an atheist. Only one or two came close to that and mostly
    they had other problems with the Christian faith and the Bible. In fact I don't
    recall seeing the term "young earth" or YEC used anywhere. Did I miss it?

    Walt Hicks <>

    In any consistent theory, there must
    exist true but not provable statements.
    (Godel's Theorem)

    You can only find the truth with logic
    If you have already found the truth
    without it. (G.K. Chesterton)

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