[Fwd: Re: Questions to Allen Roy]

From: Walter Hicks (wallyshoes@mindspring.com)
Date: Sun Sep 21 2003 - 22:56:54 EDT

  • Next message: Glenn Morton: "RE: Questions to Allen Roy"

    I meant to say:

    When ASA members learn to present the truth of
    science in a fashion that conveys the points
    without being abusive and in a manner that can be
    readily understood, then progress might be made.
    What I see on this list does NOT meet the mail.

    -------- Original Message --------
       Subject: Re: Questions to Allen Roy
          Date: Sun, 21 Sep 2003 22:53:40 -0400
          From: Walter Hicks <wallyshoes@mindspring.com>
            To: Sarah Berel-Harrop <sec@hal-pc.org>
            CC: asa@calvin.edu
    References: <NNEEIFFNLGKNEKMJFBOBIELCCCAA.glennmorton@entouch.net>

    Let me be clear, Sarah.

    I mention my daughter specifically to personalize
    it. I really do resent generalizations like
    Glenn's. To demonize YECs is to lower yourself to
    the level they are portrayed to represent.

    I am not referring to my daughter when I mention
    people who basically believe in a Young Earth
    outlook. They seem to represent most (but not all)
    of the parishioners in my church -- and they do
    NOT have the hostile attitude that most on this
    list portray as the norm for a belief in a literal
    Bible. They were simply raised on the Bible and
    take those words at face value. Popular literature
    portrays science as opposed to Christianity, so
    what can you expect? Expect YECs to embrace
    evolution when the Prophet is Dawkins? Even with
    that, my views are respected.

    My church has a web site that lists various
    "resources". I have been working for some time to
    get ASA listed and it is nearly a "done deal". My
    hope is that they will see intelligent discussion
    that makes them feel like they are respected as
    Christians -- and not a lot of criticism that
    makes them feel that they are looked upon as
    bunch of illiterate fools. The material on the ASA
    site is generally good.

    It is the discussions on this list that belittle
    people. My hope is (should the site be listed)
    that nobody hears what I have been hearing. In
    fact, if I "had my druthers', Terry would can any
    posts of this nature. I would love to see only
    intelligent and POLITE discussion, rather that
    what has been posted lately.

    The Christian message is for all folk. If they
    happen to accept what some call a "mother goose"
    outlook and still know the Lord, then that it is
    acceptable in my eyes -- as long as they are more
    tolerant of scientists than scientists here are
    tolerant of them.

    When ASA members learn to present the truth of
    science in a fashion that conveys the points
    without being abusive and in a manner that can be
    readily understood, then progress might be made.
    What I see on this list does meet the mail. IMO

    Maybe I was wrong. Perhaps ASA is for scientists
    only and I erred in asking that it be listed on
    the Church's web site. If anyone thinks so, let me
    know and I can reverse the process.


    Sarah Berel-Harrop wrote:

    > ----- Original Message -----
    > From: "Walter Hicks" <wallyshoes@mindspring.com>
    > To: "Glenn Morton" <glennmorton@entouch.net>
    > Cc: "Josh Bembenek" <jbembe@hotmail.com>;
    > <asa@calvin.edu>
    > Sent: Sunday, September 21, 2003 8:10 PM
    > Subject: Questions to Allen Roy
    > > Allen:
    > >
    > > Glenn Morton wrote:
    > >
    > > snip
    > >
    > > >
    > > > Having spent 20+ years as a YEC, I can
    > assure you that I have a pretty
    > good
    > > > understanding of their position. I published
    > 30 items arguing for YEC.
    > What
    > > > I said above is fair because they take a
    > single interpretation of
    > scripture
    > > > and assume that it is GOD's interpretation
    > and expect everyone then to
    > > > accept it. When you add the 'us vs. them'
    > attitude they engender, you
    > get a
    > > > world view in which they believe they are
    > the standard of truth and in
    > which
    > > > anyone who disagrees with their standard is
    > a 'son of satan' (a term I
    > have
    > > > been called by them).
    > >
    > > To me this is like condemning all italians
    > after being mugged in an alley
    > by one
    > > some time in the past.
    > >
    > > Several questions to Allen Roy:
    > >
    > > Is this really the way that _YOU_ feel?
    > > Do you think that Glenn's assessment is
    > correct -- or does he just know a
    > > narrow subspace of YECs?
    > Well one thing to note,
    > Glenn states here he was publishing pro-YEC
    > scientific work. As such, he must have had a
    > higher profile among professional YEC's - by
    > this I mean people like AIG & ICR as opposed
    > to people like your daughter. OF COURSE
    > they are going to turn on him when he rejects
    > these views. He was an active proponent of
    > the views in question. They knew who he
    > was and they needed to make him appear
    > to be uncredible in order to maintain their
    > own credibility in the eyes of people who
    > respected Glenn's views. Correct me if
    > I got the politics wrong here Glenn.
    > Is that a narrow subspace? Well, probably. Is
    > it significant that professionals whose life's
    > work
    > is to spread YEC acted like that? I think so.
    > As we say in auditing, the tone is set at the
    > top.
    > Does it have anything to do with people like
    > your daughter and does it reflect upon her?
    > Probably not, but it's similar to the point that
    > Aulie makes about ID in his review of Pandas
    > and People. It is the existence of this silent
    > majority of people who don't really know
    > the facts but support a position that when
    > investigated turns out to be dishonest at
    > worst and negligently careless at best that
    > permit
    > this sort of nonsense to keep going. Do they
    > have an affirmative duty to check this stuff
    > out?
    > I would say generally no ... if they are going
    > to sit on school boards and start evaluating
    > textbooks I would set the bar higher - a lot
    > higher.
    > ---
    > Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
    > Checked by AVG anti-virus system
    > (http://www.grisoft.com).
    > Version: 6.0.516 / Virus Database: 313 - Release
    > Date: 09/01/2003

    Walt Hicks <wallyshoes@mindspring.com>

    In any consistent theory, there must exist true but not provable statements. (Godel's Theorem)

    You can only find the truth with logic If you have already found the truth without it. (G.K. Chesterton) ===================================

    This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.4 : Sun Sep 21 2003 - 22:56:10 EDT