Re: Report on the YEC seminar in Durango, 9-2003

From: Michael Roberts (
Date: Sat Sep 20 2003 - 16:10:11 EDT

  • Next message: allenroy: "Re: Post-Empiricism Science: A little surprised"


    I enjoyed this in a perverse way as it highlights the problems caused by the
    intolerance of YECs. I shall interpserse comments.
    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "John W Burgeson" <>
    To: <>
    Cc: <>; <>; <>
    Sent: Saturday, September 20, 2003 6:57 PM
    Subject: Report on the YEC seminar in Durango, 9-2003

    > Well, I've just come from a presentation at a local Durango church on why
    > YEC is the only "right" position to take.
    > Joe had emailed me privately that he personally thought a person such as
    > myself, distinctly scornful of YECism, might still be a Christian.
    The apostle Paul had problems with the superspiritual who doubted his faith,
    see 2 Cor 11.7 and in fact the whole of chaps 10 -13. I used this as the
    text of my final sermon in a church where the senior pastor doubted my
    I had
    > asked him to make that point, as appropriate, in his talk. In that talk,
    > he specifically said that non-YEC people were calling Jesus a liar. That
    > all other interpretations than YEC "do great harm to the cause of
    > Christ." That so-called "Christian" scientists doing radiometric dating
    > deliberately falsify their findings.
    That is a blatant false accusation. I did geology at Oxford UK in the 60s
    when it was the leading age lab in UK, and we were taught about age-dating
    in a very critical way. TTo suggest that any of these or age-workers like
    Dalrymple (a Christian) is fankly evil and satanic.

    That TEs do not worship "the God of
    > the Bible."
    Then nor did BBWarfield John Stoot and most evangelcials since 1730? We are
    in good company..
     At each of these places I listened carefully to see if he
    > would give the slightest caveat; he did not.
    > To his credit, he did say, in an unrelated discussion of evidences, that
    > TEs and PCs "might" be Christians, "although in so doing they cannot be
    > consistent with either science or scripture."
    How gracious can he get!

    But this came 10 minutes or
    > so after he had said the things in the paragraph above.
    > The book table, which was impressive, had copies of a children's book on
    > "Bombey," even though that argument was demolished 20 years ago. The
    > propaganda machine was rolling.
    The Bombey tract is such a good one that you must use it even if it is a
    tissue of lies.
    > There was some new stuff, apparently. But I'll wait to tomorrow to give a
    > full report.
    > Joe, Roger, and Mike. This post is to an Internet LISTSERV. It will be
    > "public" for some years, and will be accessed within a few days by
    > perhaps 200 people, almost all of whom are both Christians and trained in
    > the sciences. Most of these guys are a lot more conservative than I am,
    > BTW.
    Yeah, Burgy I am definitely more conservative than you!!!!! But you knew

    There are even two or three brave
    or stubborn
     YECers among them, one of whom
    > knows more about coal than Stephen J. Gold knew about beetles. You are
    > welcome to join in the discussion, and to correct any place I have
    > unfairly reported your remarks. Just hit the reply key. Or direct your
    > mail to Better still, join the discussions directly; info
    > on how to do this is on the ASA web site at
    > This much more I will say, Joe. If I really believed the Bible taught
    > what you think it teaches, I could not in any way take it seriously.
    > Whether I would not then be a Christian, I don't know. Maybe. Might as
    > well believe in Mother Goose.
    > Burgy
    Some months ago when I said that if given the choice of being a YEC and a
    Christian or an athesit I would chosse the latter , some jumped down my
    throat. I will still say that as I have yet to find a YEC whose arguments
    can be considered honest in any normal sense of the word. I am quite
    prepared to tell God on judgement day that I am not YEC because He wants me
    to be honest and there is no place with God for those who are not.


    This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.4 : Sat Sep 20 2003 - 16:55:33 EDT