Re: My daughter is a YEC -- omphalos argument, Walt's Concerns, &c.

From: Walter Hicks (
Date: Sat Sep 13 2003 - 11:49:33 EDT

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    "Dr. Blake Nelson" wrote:

    > The argument that Walt is making re the simulation is
    > known as the omphalos argument, and there is no way to
    > prove that God did not create the universe with
    > apparent age (leaving aside whether this makes God
    > deceptive, etc.).

    Darn! Nothing I ever do is original. I do wish it had a nicer
    sounding name than omphalos.

    > However, that is not the claim that
    > YECers generally make. It is at least theoretically
    > important to distinguish between the position that 1)
    > creation is recent with apparent age and 2) the
    > attempt to attack science on its own turf in asserting
    > a YEC conception of Genesis.

    And here we disagree. I believe that most YECs. just want to left
    alone and not engage in scientific debate at all. They are, I
    believe just normal non-scientific people who just learned the
    Bible in Sunday School and take it at face value. They may or may
    not believe in evolution but don't consider it a life defining
    issue. In all likelihood they never heard of Gish or ASA.

    > It seems to me that the problem lies where someone
    > says that a particular view is the necessary one as a
    > litmus test for being a christian or if there version
    > of reality is not true christianity is wrong. I knew
    > little about Duane Gish until I saw him in a video at
    > from one of the Vatican
    > conferences. When he asserted that an atheist was
    > correct that if evolution were true, Jesus essentially
    > meant nothing, I was flabbergasted.

    Therein lies the problem. Everyone on this list seems to equate the
    loonies like Gish with the typical YEC and my experience says that
    they are not. Most of them are not interested in science in the
    first place. ASAers attack the wrong dragon. Stick to slaying the
    voodoo science monsters and you do a good deed. To generalize about
    the majority of YECs is to do a slanderous and sinful thing




    Walt Hicks <>

    In any consistent theory, there must exist true but not provable statements. (Godel's Theorem)

    You can only find the truth with logic If you have already found the truth without it. (G.K. Chesterton) ===================================

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