From: Stephen J. Krogh, P.G. (firstname.lastname@example.org)
Date: Fri Sep 12 2003 - 17:54:19 EDT
> -----Original Message-----
> From: Walter Hicks [mailto:email@example.com]
> Sent: Friday, September 12, 2003 4:03 PM
> To: Stephen J. Krogh, P.G.
> Cc: ASA@calvin.edu
> Subject: Re: My daughter is a YEC
> "Stephen J. Krogh, P.G." wrote:
> > If "True Christianity" requires one to deny objective reality,
> and replace
> > it with something that is evidently a false doctrine, why take any of it
> > seriously. If "True Christianity" demanded a geocentric view and a flat
> > earth, Christianity would be wrong and, knowing what I know (I
> have to deal
> > with the data every day - it is not like I can ignore it) I
> would have to
> > rescind my beliefs. YEC, Geocentricity and other false
> doctrines are worthy
> > of attack.
> Obviously, I am not making the point clearly -- or some are intentionally
> ignoring what I have said. I'll try again.
> The notion that God created a universe for men that had all the
> history "built
> in" is absolutely 100% indistinguishable from one wherein the
> history actually
> happened. There is absolutely no objective test that can
> distinguish between
> them. Whenever I suggest this, all I get is a bunch of
> pooh-poohs. You don't
> like the notion and a lot of others do not as well.
> So instead you turn me into one of your strawmen and then pick it apart.
> Sure their are people who loose their faith because they are
> mislead by certain
> snake oil salesmen who promote a voodoo science. How many do you
> think loose
> their faith because they think that all scientists are close
> minded elitists
> who will not even consider a point of view held by the vast majority of
> Christians who have no interest in science whatsoever? When they
> do accept the
> viewpoint of scientists, it is but a small step to the view that
> science=atheism because of the manner in which scientists openly
> endorse what
> is (at best) a deistic view of the universe.
> By ridiculing all possible YEC outlooks, far more harm than good
> has been done.
I disagree, far more harm is done, with the YEC outlook to both sides,
believers AND unbelievers. Unbelievers that are knowledgeable in the
earth-sciences won't consider Christianity at all, if YECism is tied to it,
and Believers, when confronted with the relevant observations, can
potentially turn from their faith, unless they change their hermeneutical
approach. Your point was clear, as well as the strawmen of your own. We also
couldn't distinguish Last-Thursday-ism from an ancient creation.
Job 10;8-14 Psalm 50:6 Ecclesiastes 3:11
Job 12:7 Psalm 97:6 Habakkuk 3:3
Job 34:14-15 Psalm 98:2-3 Acts 17:24-31
Job 38-41 Psalm 104 Romans 1:18-24
Psalm 8 Psalm 139 Romans 2:14-15
Psalm 19:1-6 Proverbs 8:22-31 Colossians 1:23
Since the Bible explicitly endorses the facts revealed in nature, I believe,
as Christians, we are obligated to accept the truths revealed through the
study of the creation? I believe that from a reading of the scriptures
above, that an honest study of the creation will reveal it's truth, that
includes its history. Rather than some snake-oil salesman.
Why even consider YEC view as historical fact when it simply uses the
Babylonian cosmology (which we do know is not an accurate portrait of the
Cosmos) as only a framework to describe God's sovereignty of his creation.
Likewise, how productive is it to debate convoluted mechanisms to explain
Geocentricity, just to adhere to a Geocentric hermeneutic. It simply become
academic to do so.
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