Re: Van Till's Ultimate Gap

Date: Sun Sep 07 2003 - 09:56:54 EDT

  • Next message: Dr. Blake Nelson: "RE: Van Till's Ultimate Gap"

    Glenn Morton wrote:

    > If you add a sequence
    > say, bca, it is indistinguishable from the first bca. Now it takes 10^118
    > or so universes before repeat arrangements begin. That means that any
    > reagion repeating our earth must be far, far away. And you might say that
    > that has nothing to do with you and me. One of the most interesting aspects
    > of quantum is that an electron going through two slits in a diffraction
    > grating, is both here and there--i.e. in both slits at the same time. The
    > electron is both places at once. Given the lack of knowledge we have of
    > consciousness, how can we be sure that we can't be in both places at once as
    > well?

    But this brings me back to one thing that I brought up before. If this
    is the case, I would also think we would have to conclude that at least
    some of the claims of ESP are true, unless the human mind is completely
    and utterly non-quantum in nature.

    Could we also know something of the mind of God?

    I'm not arguing for a strong form of
    Penrose' model of consciousness (QM driven), I think much
    of the mind is pretty much meat, but I would argue that the QM is the
    salt which makes those unique features of individuality. For lack
    of better words, provisional dualism. If our brains are strictly a classical
    system of chaos, then the order that comes out of them should be
    far more pedestrian. There should be no reason to desire to survive,
    no reason to need to know why we are here. A robot doesn't "care"
    if it is alive, and Penrose did at least present a persuasive argument
    that consciousness cannot be algorithmic in nature. Understanding
    simply doesn't come out of an algorithm, a mind must discover that
    understanding and program it in.

    We know that microtubules do not work very effectively, but with so many
    synapses in the brain, it may only require a very occasional success
    to have a state called "consciousness". You're claiming that we only need
    some 20000 registers to get a quantum computer to prove that there are
    other universes. As I recall, we have billions of synapses in our brains.
    If even a few of them fire in the right configuration, you have a feeble
    but practical quantum computer for that fleeting moment. If a quantum
    computer is as powerful as it is claimed, then surely a fully functioning
    quantum computer in our brains would be too much for any mind to handle.

    Perhaps lower forms of life also have access to this quantum state
    to a lesser extent than ourselves.

    So it seems to me that one of consequences that must follow with this is
    that the purported ESP also is real. If we (Waynes) are in multiple
    we are also entangled, and that would mean that, unless the brain is 100%
    absolutely classical in its function, we should also have access to that
    information if only indirectly.

    Another thing, following from Blake's idea.
    Salvation could come to all the
    Waynes and Glenns in the other universes where-ever they are in their
    level of sin because God's grace will keep the other Waynes from becoming
    those ax murders, embezzlers, evil dictators, etc. or make them repent and
    also accept Christ. It takes only ONE Glenn to accept Christ as a personal
    savior to save all Glenns. Likewise the Waynes.
    Salvation is not just the eternal life, in my opinion,
    salvation is also in this life, because a believer who _really_ walks
    with Christ is likely to be saved from serious sin in this life. That may be
    as state change in the whole ensemble of Waynes. Thermodynamic potentials
    are usually sharply peaked, why not the state function of the human mind?
    If the mind is on Christ, then a snap shot in most universes could also show
    a Glenn who is obedient to Christ. Of course, there would be some stray
    Glenns, but they would eventually conform to the general population
    distribution. A life absorbed in sin would also be reflected in that

    Somewhat in jest....

    by Grace alone we proceed,

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