From: Debbie Mann (firstname.lastname@example.org)
Date: Fri Sep 05 2003 - 17:28:52 EDT
Now, that is very like the infinite universe theories. However, I have never
bought into the aspect that having an infinite number of universes means
everything should have happened or that an infinite amount of time implies
For one thing, there are two kinds of infinity (that I know of)- countable
and uncountable. The rational numbers are countable. The real numbers
aren't. The best way to picture this is to picture a planet spitting out
space ships from all around it, one per second, forever. They all travel at
a high rate of speed away from the planet. There are infinitely many space
ships. But there is even more space. One can count the spaceships. One
cannot 'count' the space.
The existence of space doesn't mean that there are events in that space. The
existence of universes does not determine what is in those universes. I in
no way can picture myself in certain circumstances no matter what the
environmental situation. The fact that I am who I am is determined by events
that I affect. I affect them, at least partially, by my genetic make-up. Man
and mankind is always affecting the environment and mankind itself. We are
not random bits of flotsam, so all events will never occur. The choices that
we would change may be countably infinite - but they are not all choices.
There is space besides.
Further. In time and space, there is no reason why these other times and
spaces cannot contain the null set - or a set of items and happenings
totally irrelevant to us.
Our time is new and unique. Our choices are important. Infinite previous
situations, infinite civilizations, infinite choices does not in anyway take
away from the power of the choices we have over our situation today.
One more try:
is an infinite series
It's a lot more interesting for a brief time in the middle than on either
there are infinitely many infinite series. Infinite does not equal
And another try:
In another life I could imagine killing someone. I might do that to protect
my children. But, I would never eat my children. Or torture them. If
everything truly happens, then that would happen. I would never be
half-whale and half-human. If everything truly happens - why wouldn't that
If my parents hadn't had sex the night I was conceived - then they would
have had a different child. So how do I exist in multiple universes when a
variation so small effects my very existence?
I don't buy it.
From: Paul Greaves [mailto:email@example.com]
Sent: Friday, September 05, 2003 2:00 PM
To: Debbie Mann; Asa
Subject: Re: Time
I've heard an illustration that may help here... start by assuming that
there was an infinite amount of time in the past. Now infinity does not
just mean an extremely long time, or even unimaginably long time. It means
*infinitely* long... one consequence of it would be that everything that
would be possible within the limits of possibility (that is, the physical
laws) would have had time to happen already. So everything we experience
should have had plenty of time to have happened long ago. Why then, would
we be here "now"?
Another way of looking at it is that a million years ago would be just as
close to "the infinite past" as today is, so why didn't the "now" events
happen a million years ago? Or some other time, even earlier? There was
plenty of time available... (it turns into a kind of logical infinite
Infinite past time seems to remove any firm footings to establish a
reference point in time, by which "today" can be understood as a logical
consequence of the past. I'm having a hard time putting it into words, but
hopefully you can see what I'm getting at.
Here's another thought... if past time was infinite, every possible event
would have already happened, and every possible meaning to life would have
been fully explored and fully satisfied, so wouldn't that make our current
existence kind of pointless?
----- Original Message -----
From: "Debbie Mann" <firstname.lastname@example.org>
> From J. B.
> "However, how does something exist for infinite time and reach the
> This seems like an illogical statement, it can never exist for long enough
> to reach the present and therefore is impossible to have always existed.
> Thus time and "existence" must have a point of origin from which to count
> finite period of time, however great or small, to reach today."
> Why? On an infinite line there are infinitely many points. They are in an
> order, though not a countable one. Our moment is on the graph. The fact
> the moment exists, or that the point exists, does not mathematically
> upon the rest of the line. Infinity does not effect, positively or
> negatively, the fact that this point, and this segment exist. I am
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