Re: clarification request from Re: Van Till's Ultimate Gap

From: Howard J. Van Till (
Date: Fri Sep 05 2003 - 15:26:03 EDT

  • Next message: George Murphy: "Re: clarification request from Re: Van Till's Ultimate Gap"

    >From: "bivalve" <>

    > I am a little confused: if the world has not existed eternally, this sounds
    > like a creation ex nihlo event occurred at some point. Does the world, in
    > Griffith's usage under point 1, imply some properties of its modern state,
    > so that he envisions something akin to the idea of creating out of a
    > pre-existing chaos?


    Griffin chooses his words very carefully. Perhaps more context is needed.

    Griffin's statement was: "Our world has been created by a good, loving,
    wise, purposive God. This part of the Christian good news stands in
    contrast with doctrines that have maintained that our world was not created
    at all but has existed eternally..."

    It is important to see that he speaks of OUR world (the particular universe
    of which we are members) and not the WORLD that is always in relationship to
    God. OUR world is considered to be but one epoch or manifestation of the
    World. Furthermore, Griffin often uses the word "creation" to mean God's
    choosing of the particular character of this epoch of the WORLD that we know
    as OUR world. So, the WORLD has always existed, but OUR world has not. To
    get OUR world from the WORLD does not require an act of creation ex nihilo.
    Creation out of some pre-existing chaos? Perhaps.

    Howard Van Till

    PS to the list: In presenting Griffin to this list I am not necessarily
    saying that I find nothing to question or criticize in what he writes. I am,
    however, saying that I think he is making a significant contribution to
    contemporary theology and to the science/theology discussion.

    I would hope that the members of this list could carry on this discussion
    without feeling to need to caricature or insult that contribution.

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