RE: Van Till's Ultimate Gap

From: Debbie Mann (
Date: Wed Sep 03 2003 - 09:58:22 EDT

  • Next message: Alexanian, Moorad: "RE: Van Till's Ultimate Gap"

    I tutored my step-son last night in probability. I've tutored him before in
    Calculus. Every so often in the process, we get to a point where he sees the
    wonder in the math as I do. "And that just happens?" To which I reply,
    "Isn't it cool how it all works together?"

    I studied projective geometry for my masters. It is great fun. It is
    possible to do many neat 'party tricks' with it. It is the third
    possibility, with Euclidean being the first and elliptical the second.
    Stepping beyond Euclidean was fundamental for Einstein.

    The math in this universe alone is a miracle. It is phenomenal, amazing and
    I absolutely believe it was created by a great mind. It didn't just happen.

    -----Original Message-----
    From: []On
    Behalf Of Iain Strachan
    Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2003 1:49 AM
    To: Josh Bembenek;
    Subject: Re: Van Till's Ultimate Gap

    I think Stephen Hawking alludes to the "ultimate gap" very clearly in the
    last page of "Brief History of Time", by asking questions such as "Why does
    the universe go to the bother of existing at all?" "What is it that
    breathes fire into the equations?" "Why is there something rather than
    nothing?". His book concludes famously with the statement that if we knew
    the answer to these questions, then we would truly know the mind of God.
    Though Hawking is an atheist, I think he is perhaps making the point that
    there are some things for which we may not expect to find a naturalistic
    explanation. It just IS, and from there we enter the realm of
    philosophy/theology/metaphysics, or whatever. The maths tells us HOW, but
    it doesn't tell us WHY.
     Iain .G.D. Strachan

    There are 10 types of people in the world ...
    those who understand binary and those who don't.

    ----- Original Message -----
    From: "Josh Bembenek" <>
    To: <>
    Sent: Wednesday, September 03, 2003 6:42 AM
    Subject: Van Till's Ultimate Gap

    > Just a quick thought that I'd like some feedback on. Many on this list
    > expressed dismay over IDers usage of God's "hand-like" action as a magic
    > wand to use whenever scientists don't understand a particular phenomena.
    > agree that it is fruitful to point out that God never ceases to act in
    > sustaining Creation and that such rhetorical strategy implies
    > creation when natural mechanisms are found to account for such phenomena.
    > However, I wonder if this same problem exists for the fully-gifted
    > viewpoint? What makes us think that the origin of space time and the
    > derivation of matter, energy and all of the universe is simply a gap in
    > understanding that some future naturalistic discovery won't elegantly
    > explain, again making the "God Hypothesis" obsolete? Perhaps I should
    > remember some discussion of this in some article, but its not coming to
    > I don't care to defend my idea by trying to give any explanation for a
    > naturalistic origin of space-time. Besides for those here, isn't it
    > sufficient enough to hypothesize that a naturalistic explanation is out
    > there awaiting our discovery instead of "jumping the gun" and prematurely
    > attributing creation to the act of God before all explanations are fully
    > explored? The Big Bang Hypothesis is younger than evolution isn't it?
    > not looking for a drawn out debate, just some thoughtful considerations.
    > Josh
    > _________________________________________________________________
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