RE: Prosperity

From: Debbie Mann (
Date: Sun Jun 29 2003 - 00:00:17 EDT

  • Next message: "A tale told by an idiot"

    There have been a number of the prosperity preachers that came out of
    poverty. I'm tempted to quote names, but they aren't those who I follow,
    though I've read several of their books. I'm likely to get them
    criss-crossed. (If you really want a list, my mother probably has some of
    the books.) The stories of neighbors dropping off food just as the cupboard
    was bare, or of a pound of spaghetti feeding more than a dozen people are at
    least heart-warming. These tales of God coming through just in the nick of
    time are so wide spread that I refuse to doubt that most of them are true.

    What is rich? What do you want for your life? Certainly the measure has to
    be relative. Many Americans living in the projects in the seventies were far
    richer than all but the top few percent of the populations of other
    God enriches - in all areas of life. How much can God enrich your life
    financially? I couldn't begin to say. It most definitely will depend upon
    your beliefs.

    Believing = Receiving has many Biblical references. When the disciples
    couldn't heal the boy with a demon, Jesus confronted the father for his
    doubt. He responded with 'I believe, help my unbelief.' Jesus cursed the fig
    tree and then told the disciples that if they told the mountain to be cast
    into the sea, and believed, it would do so.

    We are saved by what our heart believes.

    How many success stories are there of people who made it out of the slums
    due to sheer determination and belief that they could? Andrew Carnegie
    started out as the immigrant son of a weaver. Read the biographies of some
    of these people - they believed in what they were doing. Believing is a
    spiritual law that works in the physical realm as well. Maya Angelou's
    grandmother worked her way from poverty as a single mother to being a local
    business owner. She was a devout Christian who acted on beliefs.

    I'm not going to waste my time mourning over those who don't succeed. I'm
    going to look for the common denominators in those who did. Those are: faith
    in God and a solid belief in their goal.

    Paul said that we had a great cloud of witnesses around us. Well, their
    number has increased in the last 2000 years.

    Belief can work in all sorts of different ways. There are many cases of
    cancer striking in the areas where people's lives have bothered them. I
    personally know of several women who waited on their domineering husbands
    hand and foot for years and then ended their lives in wheel chairs having
    been waited on hand and foot for years by their husbands. Two daughters of
    different couples let me know that it was 'just desserts'.

    St. Bernadette felt that she couldn't die until she had suffered enough to
    get into heaven. I have read that there is a certain ecstasy in suffering -
    a point where one gets beyond the pain to another state. There are those who
    want this.

    My point is that there are numerous cases of people succeeding through the
    principles of believing = receiving, give and it shall be given unto you and
    other biblical principals. There are also numerous cases where it can be
    documented that people wanted or believed they deserved their 'suffering'.
    The converse is much harder to prove. Who's going to write a book about why
    they failed?

    Many of these preachers do speak on serving. Give and it shall be given unto
    you is a sister sermon to believe and ye shall receive. (Their own
    prosperity does reflect this.) Giving is more than financial giving and
    prosperity is more than financial prosperity. 'Brethren, I wish above all
    things that thou mayest prosper and be in health EVEN AS THY SOUL
    PROSPERETH' comes up often. One has to feed the soul. I can't count the
    number of times morning devotionals have come up in regards to the
    prospering of the soul.

    Record a few of these sermons and fast forward through them on your VCR,
    pausing here and there to get the gist. You might find yourself getting
    grabbed now and then.

    -----Original Message-----
    From: Dr. Blake Nelson []
    Sent: Saturday, June 28, 2003 7:45 PM
    To: Debbie Mann
    Cc: ASA
    Subject: RE: Prosperity

    The "Believing -- receiving" part is one of the many
    theological problems with this view.

    Are you saying that those who are poor do not believe
    adequately in God?

    I don't want to get into issues about theological
    acceptability here, but just as a footnote, Norman
    Vincent Peale, for example, was more a pop-pyschology
    take on the Gospel -- the power of positive thinking,
    etc. like Robert Schuler has done more recently.
    Again, the problem that is presented by such a take is
    whether one's "success" is due to God as blessings or
    due to one's "power of positive thinking". Likewise,
    if one does not succeed does that mean that one did
    not think positively enough? I am not sure how either
    preacher addresses how one's power of positive
    thinking integrates into humbling one's self before
    God and seeking His will rather than thinking
    positively about what we want.

    --- Debbie Mann <> wrote:
    > I have heard hundreds of sermons from dozens of
    > preachers on prosperity for
    > Christians. Norman Vincent Peal, Dale Carnegie
    > (almost a preacher), Joyce
    > Meyer, Kenneth Hagin, many much smaller names have
    > volumes and volumes on
    > the more abundant life. Believing - receiving. Give
    > and it shall be given
    > unto you, pressed down, packed together and running
    > over.

    Do you Yahoo!?
    SBC Yahoo! DSL - Now only $29.95 per month!

    This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.4 : Sat Jun 28 2003 - 23:58:05 EDT