Faith Ministries

From: Debbie Mann (
Date: Fri Jun 27 2003 - 20:48:59 EDT

  • Next message: Debbie Mann: "Things"

    The O.T. not only teaches that God blessed the obedient, but also that as
    soon as they had a surplus, the 'servants of God' became very forgetful of
    the source of their blessings. The pattern of 'get and forget' repeated
    itself often. They lost their focus. There are still numerous verses
    throughout the Bible promising us abundance provided we believe, our soul
    prospers, we forgive our brothers and other things.

    Life is cause and effect. God does interrupt this process to bless his
    children. Is it Joni who is the evangalist who is paralyzed from the neck
    down? I read some of her writings. She is a believer in miracles and yet has
    not been physically healed. She states that it is a greater miracle that she
    can live in faith and joy in her current state - and reach out to thousands
    in doing so - than it would be for her to be healed.

    God does physically intervene in our behalf - in our behalf. And there are
    many Christians who are able to witness due to their health and prosperity.
    But we are all different and many of us would sink like a rock if we won the

    By the way - Job had everything and still was giving sacrifices for his
    grown children just in case they might have sinned. The thing that he
    greatly feared came upon him. The man had everything and instead of trusting
    in God - he was greatly fearing that the other shoe was going to fall. He
    was a good man - but his focus was definitely off.

    Many of the faith ministries are totally genuine. Reach some by fire and
    some by compassion - the goal is that all be reached. Though all will not
    choose to be chosen.

    -----Original Message-----
    From: []On
    Behalf Of Mccarrick Alan D CRPH
    Sent: Friday, June 27, 2003 10:19 AM
    To: 'ASA List'
    Subject: RE: Concordist sequence--why be a concordist? (off list)

    Debbie wrote:

    >In my experience, the people who preach abundance continue to experience
    >it - and health,and all the good things in life - as long as they keep the
    >focus on God. There have been some amazing falls of evangelists who lost
    >that focus.

    >If we don't have it, we're going to have to experience some tough stuff. If
    >we do - all these things will be added unto us. I keep using the word
    >'focus' because that's what it is. It isn't being good, or doing good for
    >others or anything else. Certainly that should come along. And it isn't
    >anything that an outsider can be sure about, though there are obvious

    >Get the focus, get the abundance. God wants us to be good witnesses. When
    >people see us with what they want, they are a lot more likely to come to

    I thought that I would drop my thoughts in here on the issue of Christians
    having the "good things in life"

    I have found this topic to be always a source of confusion for me. The OT
    certainly gives much credit to the idea that temporal blessings are related
    to God's pleasure at our obedience - Abraham, Isaac, Jacob... Even the
    entire people of Israel are promised physical blessings leading from
    obedience to God's laws. Basically, Judges through Malachi seem to present
    this idea.

    BUT when we look at Job (admittedly perhaps the oldest text) we see this
    exact idea (We obey = God blesses and reverse) condemned.

    I would say the NT gives much less support to the idea of material blessings
    flowing directly from obedience (as several have already said). More
    strongly are the warnings of the temptations of wealth, and the higher
    responsibilities of those with material possessions.

    In City of God, Augustine addressed the fact that the godly and the ungodly
    suffer the same - it is the response that differs. He watched as
    civilization around them crumbled, and the church was called to "stand in
    the gap."

    Certainly the monastic tradition (in theory at least) placed material
    possession as a direct impediment to godliness.

    The French sociologist Christian Jacques Ellul often warned that money and
    possessions were so fraught with temptations to sin, that they could be
    considered to be evil.

    One of my favorite passages on this issue is:

    Proverbs 30
    7 "Two things I ask of you, O LORD ;
    do not refuse me before I die:
    8 Keep falsehood and lies far from me;
    give me neither poverty nor riches,
    but give me only my daily bread.
    9 Otherwise, I may have too much and disown you
    and say, 'Who is the LORD ?'
    Or I may become poor and steal,
    and so dishonor the name of my God.

    Alan McCarrick

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