Re: The forgotten verses

From: Vernon Jenkins (
Date: Mon Jun 02 2003 - 19:10:16 EDT

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    You appear to overlook the principal reason for my last writing to Michael.
    It was to point to the fundamental matter of man's essential nature as it is
    presented in the Judaeo-Christian Scriptures; and, arising from that,
    whether it is reasonable to believe that his (man's) overturning of God's
    account of how things actually began can possibly carry any conviction. I
    suggest that until that matter is understood, and settled, no real meaning
    can be attached to the detailed evidence driving the current debate. An
    associated consideration, of course, is man's tendency to discount the
    supernatural; to look only to 'natural' explanations.

    Dave, perhaps you would like to address my concerns with respect to these

    Let me now briefly turn to what you have chosen to call 'numerological
    drivel'. You are hardly suggesting that the numbers I find in the
    Scriptures - express and implied - are merely figments of my imagination.
    Have you, therefore, no desire to inquire why they are there? A careful
    examination of the facts reveals they are undoubtedly of supernatural
    origin - and one thus infers they are intended to accomplish some serious
    purpose. I claim no personal advantage for seeing a clear message in the
    numbers - but I do consider it strangely ostrich-like for any numerate
    intellectual Christian to brush these aside as completely inconsequential.
    Are you really presuming to deny our Creator the right to use whatever means
    He considers appropriate to safeguard His Word?

    By the way, your belief that the engineers of Solomon's day believed pi to
    equal 3 is utter nonsense - if only on the basis that the pyramid builders
    were near neighbours - and the early Hebrews had spent a long time in
    Egypt.. However, a closer reading of II Chronicles 4:2, 5 and a more
    sympathetic approach to the data adequately proves the point.


    D.F.Siemens wrote, in part:

    > Michael has, among other activities, checked the quotations presented in
    > support of YEC ideas and found them gross misrepresentations of the
    > research. He has solid grounds to call them lies. When the falsehoods
    > have been repeated after the perpetrators have been notified of their
    > error, he has grounds for denunciation as solid as those our Lord had in
    > the sermon recorded in Matthew 23.

    > As to the numerology, how does it clarify the message of scripture? How
    > does counting letters make anyone a better follower of Christ? a better
    > person whatever the standards? It seems rather to encourage pride like
    > that of Gnostics and Kabbalists. For a specific instance, how does
    > extracting an inexact value for pi from numerological data do more than
    > the "inspired" value of 3 given in II Chronicles 4:2? Is either
    > representative of an omniscient deity, who must know the transcendental
    > nature of pi? I have to concur with Michael's judgment. As I see it, you
    > are being suckered into wasting your time with numerological drivel.
    > Dave

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