From: Alexanian, Moorad (firstname.lastname@example.org)
Date: Fri May 30 2003 - 09:42:04 EDT
The following is from "Homosexuality: The Christian Perspective" by Lehman Strauss, Litt.D., F.R.G.S. http://www.bible.org/docs/splife/chrhome/homo.htm
Q. What explicitly does the Bible teach about homosexuality?
This question I consider to be basic because, if we accept God's Word on the subject of homosexuality, we benefit from His adequate answer to this problem. I am concerned only with the Christian or biblical view of homosexuality. The Bible has much to say about sex sins in general.
First, there is adultery. Adultery in the natural sense is sexual intercourse of a married person with someone other than his or her own spouse. It is condemned in both the Old and New Testaments (Exodus 20:14; I Cor. 6:9, 10). Christ forbids dwelling upon the thoughts, the free play of one's imagination that leads to adultery (Matthew 5:28).
Second, there is fornication, the illicit sex acts of unmarried persons which is likewise forbidden (I Corinthians 5:1; 6:13, 18; Ephesians 5:3).
Then there is homosexuality which likewise is condemned in Scripture. The Apostle Paul, writing by inspiration of the Holy Spirit, declares that homosexuality "shall not inherit the kingdom of God" (I Corinthians 6:9; 10). Now Paul does not single out the homosexual as a special offender. He includes fornicators, idolators, adulterers, thieves, covetous persons, drunkards, revilers and extortioners. And then he adds the comment that some of the Christians at Corinth had been delivered from these very practices: "And such were some of you: But ye are washed, but ye are sanctified, but ye are justified in the name of the Lord Jesus, and by the spirit of our God" (I Corinthians 6:11). All of the sins mentioned in this passage are condemned by God, but just as there was hope in Christ for the Corinthians, so is there hope for all of us.
Homosexuality is an illicit lust forbidden by God. He said to His people Israel, "Thou shalt not lie with mankind, as with womankind: it is abomination" (Leviticus 18:22). "If a man also lie with mankind, as he lieth with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination: they shall surely be put to death; their blood shall be upon them" (Leviticus 20:13). In these passages homosexuality is condemned as a prime example of sin, a sexual perversion. The Christian can neither alter God's viewpoint nor depart from it.
In the Bible sodomy is a synonym for homosexuality. God spoke plainly on the matter when He said, "There shall be no whore of the daughters of Israel, nor a sodomite of the sons of Israel" (Deuteronomy 23:17). The whore and the sodomite are in the same category. A sodomite was not an inhabitant of Sodom nor a descendant of an inhabitant of Sodom, but a man who had given himself to homosexuality, the perverted and unnatural vice for which Sodom was known.
Let us look at the passages in question:
But before they lay down, the men of the city, even the men of Sodom, compassed the house around, both old and young, all the people from every quarter:
And they called unto Lot, and said unto him, Where are the men which came in to thee this night? Bring them out unto us, that we may know them.
And Lot went out at the door unto them, and shut the door after him, And said, I pray you, brethren, do not so wickedly.
Behold now, I have two daughters which have not known man; let me, I pray you, bring them out unto you, and do ye to them as is good in your eyes: only unto these men do nothing; for therefore came they under the shadow of my roof. (Genesis 19:4-8)
The Hebrew word for "know" in verse 5 is ya„da`, a sexual term. It is used frequently to denote sexual intercourse (Genesis 4:1, 17, 25; Matthew 1:24, 25). The message in the context of Genesis 19 is clear. Lot pled with the men to "do not so wickedly." Homosexuality is wickedness and must be recognized as such else there is no hope for the homosexual who is asking for help to be extricated from his perverted way of life.
From: Sondra Brasile [mailto:email@example.com]
Sent: Fri 5/30/2003 9:17 AM
Subject: Re: Do non-U.S. Christians say "God Bless America?"
I just don't understand why you brazenly ignore the unequivocal words in the
Bible that describe, in detail, homosexual "union" regardless of the
situation (intimate or non-intimate) as an abomination to God.
God made humans to engage in sexual acts; you can say they are "born that
way" but God has put strict limits on this innate desire. There are tons of
examples of things we may be "born to do" (eat, have sex, talk, get angry)
that we are forbidden to engage in, or limited in our use of, under certain
circumstances. I would be willing to bet they can find the gene that gives
us our genetic sex drive, but God has prescribed *limits*! How 'natural' is
intercourse? When we go outside of these limits it is called sin.
So what is the measure of sin then, John? Emotions? Our 'world view'? Do we
have any guide or is it just 'if it feels good do it'? That doesn't sound
like our personal God, how will he hold us responsible at the judgement seat
when he failed to clearly state the 'rules of the game'?
I have fallen into this same situation with my own kids again and again and
a *just* human cannot require their kids to guess at the *right way* and
then punish them when they get it wrong, therefore a just GOD could never
require us to just guess at the "rules" and spend eternity mulling over (or
whatever Hell is) why he punished us for something that wasn't clearly
stated as sin, but he did. I'd say unless you're reading the wrong Bible
it's pretty clear-cut, cut and dried, but still you ignore it? I just don't
get it. Apparently, my husband has had TOTALLY sinful (adulterous)
relationships that were completely intimate and loving, how can degree of
intimacy change the rules? Or make the rules?
Burgy, you seem like a genuis to me, but on this one point you seem to have
blinders on. I'm being honest, I hope you don't take that as a mean comment.
>From: Burgy <firstname.lastname@example.org>
>Subject: Re: Do non-U.S. Christians say "God Bless America?"
>Date: Fri, 30 May 2003 00:29:32 GMT
>Wally wrote: "I think, John, that one can argue for any one of a number of
>things based upon so called logic. The question to me is what does one
>define as "sin"."
>I quite agree.
>"Are we free to make our own definitions or do we believe that there is a
>higher standard set down by God and described in what we call our holy
>As my statement on my website says clearly, and as I have stated here
>several times, What God calls sin I must also call sin.
>What I also claim is that a good case can (and has) been made that an
>intimate same-sex union of two adults is no more sin than a union of a
>male/female. The case continues by noting that persons claiming otherwise
>may be adding to God's word.
>I hope that much is clear and that you will take the time to study the
>several positions (including ones favorable to your peresent view) on my
>Burgy (John Burgeson)
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