Re: Do non-U.S. Christians say "God Bless America?"

From: John W Burgeson (
Date: Wed May 28 2003 - 10:30:39 EDT

  • Next message: John W Burgeson: "Re: On Tillich"

    I know how you feel, John, but it certainly is true that color of skin
    sexual "orientation" are not in the same category. Changing skin color is
    not an option.>>

    The argument is, of course, that they ARE in the same category -- neither
    is a chosen characteristic but is part of the individual, either genetic
    or as a result of environment or (most likely) both. I have yet to meet a
    homosexual brother or sister who affirms that the characteristic was
    chosen in any sense. Bluntly, Wally, they can no more change than a
    person of color can choose to change skin color. Michael Jackson has, I
    think, tried to do this but I understand the effort was not successful.

    >>However, I too know some people who admit to a homosexual inclination
    they resist it and behave according to sexual norms and much of what the
    Bible teaches. That is an option.>>

    I agree, and it may, indeed, be an option for some people. But I am
    convinced, not all, not even many.

    I know two persons who are transgendered. They have their own problems to
    deal with, and they are substantial. One was female when I met her three
    years ago -- today he is male. Not his choice at all -- the change had to
    be made. HE is also studying for the Christian ministry.

    "At what threshold is someone's appetite one to which a person should not
    yield in your opinion?>>

    Let me ask you the reverse question. Suppose homosexuality were the norm,
    and you wished to be a minister but would have to renounce your
    heterosexual union and repent of it to do so? Think of how hard that
    would be. I have tried this thought experiment, assuming that I really
    really felt the call of our Lord to ministry. The real thing would tear
    me up.

    Trying thought experiments like this (putting yourself in the other
    person's shoes) is a useful exercise. Such experiments prove nothing, of
    course, but they do -- partially -- get to the feelings involved.

    Scholars disagree on the issue, I know. That is why my position statement
    (on page 2, section 10 of my web site) reads as it does. And why I do not
    "celebrate" homosexual orientation as necessarily a "good thing." There
    are five levels possible (see my web site). I am somewhere between level
    3 and 4. I consider level 1 to be a non-Christian stance. And level 5 to
    be somewhat wooly-headed. I could be (as my position statement affirms)

    John Burgeson (Burgy)

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