Re: miracles

From: Graham Morbey (
Date: Thu May 15 2003 - 10:55:35 EDT

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    The Redemptive story flows out of human falleness, failure, arrogance,
    greed, etc. We humans experience evey day, death, murder, killing,
    poisonings. Difficult though it is, I can imagine that all these things
    can be carriers of redemptive moments - to the point of a cruel death on a
    Cross! We'd better not do these things on our own to illustrate
    redemption, however.


    On Thu, 15 May 2003, George Murphy wrote:

    > Ted Davis wrote:
    > >
    > > I thank Bob for providing the larger context for Augustine's comments. This
    > > is pretty much what I thought Augustine meant: that our human notion of
    > > limits on divine acts are simply our human notions, and God isn't bound by
    > > those. I'm on the same page with Augustine.
    > >
    > > I'm also on the same page with Bob. I agree that the historical and
    > > astronomical evidence (indeed there is no such in the latter case, our
    > > records not encompassing Joshua's day) do not support a "literal"
    > > interpretation of the Joshua story, and I'm not inclined to accept that
    > > story as a genuine miracle. I also doubt that it had redemptive
    > > purpose--killing the enemy doesn't seem to fit that category.
    > Ted -
    > On your last point, note that in the central salvific event of the OT, the
    > Exodus, "The LORD saved Israel that day from the Egyptians; and Israel saw the Egyptians
    > dead on the seashore" (Ex.14:30).
    > At a certain point in the Passover meal a drop of wine is to be spilled on the
    > floor because Israel's celebration is diminished, no matter how slightly, because of the
    > Egyptians. It is an important insight, but the Egyptians still died.
    > Shalom,
    > George
    > George L. Murphy

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