From: George Murphy (email@example.com)
Date: Mon Mar 31 2003 - 12:28:57 EST
Josh Bembenek wrote:
> >From: George Murphy <firstname.lastname@example.org>
> >To: Bill Payne <email@example.com>
> >CC: firstname.lastname@example.org, email@example.com
> >Subject: Re: appearance of age and the goodness of God
> >Date: Mon, 31 Mar 2003 07:20:11 -0500
> >Bill Payne wrote:
> > >
> > > On Fri, 28 Mar 2003 09:57:58 -0800 (GMT) firstname.lastname@example.org
> > > writes:
> > >
> > > > My name is Jason Alley, and I am posting again after a long
> > > > absence. My pastor and I were talking about the appearance of age
> > > > argument recently, and I was telling him that to believe that God
> > > > created a young creation that bore the marks of an ancient one would
> > > > be deceptive, and God does not deceive.
> > >
> > > Hello Jason,
> > >
> > > When Jesus created good (aged) wine from water, and when He multiplied
> > > fish and loaves, He did so in a short period of time, yet the products
> > > had the "appearance of age." If we can accept these miracles without
> > > impugning His character, then on what grounds do we accuse Him of being
> > > deceitful if He does the same thing with the earth, from which the fish
> > > and loaves were derived?
> > >
> > > I think created men are biting off more than we will be able to chew
> > > we attempt to box the infinite, eternal God with our philosophical
> > > arguments.
> > ...................................
> > I would consider apparent age arguments respectable (though wrong) if they
> >the _only_ arguments made by YECs in response to data that seems to show
> >that the world
> >is much older than ~10^4 years. I.e., if YECs were simply saying from the
> >start, "The
> >earth is 10^4 years old but was created then looking billions of years old,
> >& there's no
> >point in discussing the spurious indications of great age" then they would
> >at least be
> >consistent. But they aren't. Instead, they try to discredit radioactive
> >dating, make
> >claims about changing speeds of light &c, try to show that geological
> >features could
> >have been formed rapidly &c - & use apparent age simply as a fallback
> >position. This
> >makes it hard to believe that they really take the apparent age argument
> >themselves. If it were really valid, it wouldn't make any difference what
> >Pb/U ratios
> >&c were.
> I think you've made this argument before, but consider: if the earth is
> indeed young, and has the appearance of age then either:
> 1 the data is wrong about the earth being old
> 2 the interpretation is wrong about the earth being old
> So, starting with the hypothesis that the earth is young, these approaches
> are merely reconciliatory strategies and do not conflict necessarily with an
> appearance argument. Obviously, if the earth is young, then whoever claims
> it is old has gotten the wrong impression-- and therefore it is only
> appearing to be old rather than being old. Therefore, to those that the
> earth appears to be old, they are wrong for one of the two reasons above, or
> it actually does appear to be old and we cannot put our minds around why.
> Regardless, if your null hypothesis is that the earth is young, you begin to
> address the question differently than if you say the earth is old. It is
> not necessarily true that they are contradicting themselves by approaching
> the problem from different directions.
But YECs don't usually say respond to claims of great age by saying, "OK, here
are 2 possible explanations consistent with a young universe:
1) Your interpretations [really almost all your science] is wrong, or
2) Apparent age.
Instead they present the 1st & then fall back on the 2d when the 1st isn't convincing.
It's the old "I didn't kill him, and besides he had it coming" defence.
George L. Murphy
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