Re: Re: personal revelations

Date: Sun Mar 02 2003 - 04:58:45 EST

  • Next message: Don Winterstein: "Re: Numbers"

    Iain Strachan wrote

    >(2) Concerning the "fruits". Interestingly, we had a sermon in church where
    >we heard an example of an Orthodox Jew who was converted to Christianity
    >just upon reading Matthew Chapter 1. This had much to do with the layout
    >(the three "14's" of generations), and the fact that 14 is the numerical
    >value of "David". He was convicted on the basis of seeing this that his
    >whole nation's history was fulfilled in Jesus Christ & became a Christian as
    >a result. While I do not advocate basing ones faith on this phenomenon,
    >here at least seems to be one example of someone who got saved as a result
    >of it.

    Matthew was written to a Jewish
    readership just as Luke was written to the gentiles.
    Maybe it has an affect on people who know that

    Actually, by "fruits" I was looking at the the
    overall product of the religion, not just the
    numbers or the activity itself specifically. Those
    would be my own value judgment on the religion itself
    and usually have more to do with whether it changes
    the world for the better or not (i.e., not so related
    to scientific issues).

    [snip discussion on variation of text. discussed
    by others on different posts]

    >> It does seem that Pathagoras is documented as being a
    >> number fiddler, but math has that character of being
    >> eternal, immutable, true beyond comprehension, simple,
    >> yet deeply profound. Who wouldn't find something
    >> satisfying in putting a little grasp of that eternity
    >> into a piece of writing devoted to God in a world
    >> without much certainty. Whereas there is no clear
    >> documentation, I wouldn't think it is really invented
    >> by Pathagoras, only that he did it more consistently.
    >I'm not sure you quite got my point here. In fact it's not certain that
    >Pythagoras invented the numbering system; and also the system was not
    >invented in order to do gematria on words. It was invented as a method of
    >representing numbers, in order to do proper maths. There is a certain
    >similarity to Roman numerals here, though the Greek (and later Hebrew)
    >system is more logical. In general, it would be a base-ten representation,
    >so 369 might be 300+60+9. Only one exception to this way of doing it is
    >found in the Hebrew. The numbers 15 and 16 would normally be 10+5, and 10+6
    >but this gives the letters YH and YW, the sacred names of God, so 9+6 and
    >9+7 are used instead. A Hebrew bible I once saw had every fifth verse
    >number written in the Hebrew numerals, and adopted the above convention for

    My point is that when we have documented evidence of
    something in history, we can also be fairly sure that
    it was happen long before that time. It is just that
    it became sufficiently common, so that some evidence

    Look at it this way. It is something that we even
    take interest in today when we have computers and
    all the numbers we could ask for. I think numbers
    (at least for some human beings), have been something
    of fascination probably ever since we first became
    truly human.

    There are at least the Babylonians who
    came up with 360 degrees (probably originating from
    365 days), and at least by the time of Kings, it was
    well known that Pi was about 3, since there is the
    passage from 1 Kings 7:23 where the bronze tank is
    given a measurement. Even if the Gn:1.1 is statistically
    significant, I don't see how we can show that it
    could not have been the work of human intelligence.

    The best you could show is that it was purposefully
    put there by an intelligent agent. And even as a
    believer, I don't know that I can be sure that
    the intelligent agent was not "man". Indeed, the
    more accurate it is, the more I would be persuaded
    that it was "man" and not God. Man seems to need
    to have his "Intel inside" written all over the
    place, but whereas intelligence seems to impress
    us humans, no one is promised a free ticket to
    heaven for their intelligence quotent.

    by Grace alone we proceed,

    This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.4 : Sun Mar 02 2003 - 04:59:30 EST