Re: personal revelations

From: John Burgeson (
Date: Thu Feb 20 2003 - 17:16:28 EST

  • Next message: "Re: personal revelations"

    Terry wrote a pretty good response on the revelation question. I have a few

    "TheJudeo-Christian message is primarily about what Jesus did in history to
    accomplish our salvation--it's not primarily about some subjective religious
    experience or knowledge."

    Actually, it is about both, I'd argue. Both our rational nature, what we
    know from the scriptures and our intuitive nature, our own experiences of
    God. William of Occham opened the door to this meaning 800 or so years ago
    -- the "marriage of mind and heart" was the focus of church scholars all
    through the late middle ages. Meister Eckhart (1260-1327) argued the one
    must move beyond sensory knowledge, that a person's union with God was
    "beyond rationality," and not achieved through human effort but by the grace
    of God. Experiences, he asserted, would differ from person to person, and
    would transcend human knowledge.

    "The Jesus told me (apart from the Word) piety of much of modern
    evangelicalism is equally suspect. That which unites traditional Roman
    Catholic theology/piety, Pentecostal and charismatic theology, and many
    non-Christian religions is religious experience. The emphasis on the
    objective, historical facts of the doing and dying and rising again of Jesus
    Christ distinguishes Biblical Christianity from all these things."

    I agree with Terry on this, as long as it is not taken to say that the
    mystic is unimportant. And I think we have some denominations (I will not
    specify) who have done this as well. There is a balance necessary, and this
    balance may not be the same for all people.

    "I do want to remind us again of the purposes of this group. As a group
    we're not interested in general issues of theology (such as this one), or
    general issues in politics or social concerns, but the intersection of
    Christian faith (as outlined in the ASA statement of faith) and scientific

    I will argue in return that this subject is necessarily at the very
    forefront of this intersection. Ockam may not have recognized this, but by
    Pascal's time, he certainly did. The Enlightenment, and logical positivism,
    created a substantial unbalance, of course, and we are just now (the past
    20-30 years) becoming to correct this. In my judgement, having joined the
    ASA 30+ years ago, we spend (as a group) little time on this issue and far
    too much time (and space and ink and paper) on rehashing secondary
    considerations, like the reconciling of early Genesis with scientific


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