Re: personal revelations

Date: Thu Feb 20 2003 - 10:08:52 EST

  • Next message: bivalve: "Re: personal revelations"

    David: That is indeed an interesting passage from Zechariah. I was aware of
    the major difference between Pentecostal and Reformed theological views on
    continuing prophesies. I personally come from a more Reformed persuasion
    myself. Nevertheless, having just read through Acts with my 9 year old
    daughter (we're reading through the bible together this year), I was struck
    by the incidences and manner of the Holy Spirit's visitations. Not only
    were there numerous (though apparently in time diminshing) cases in which
    baptism by the Holy Spirit came as a second event after belief and water
    baptism, but Paul and others (apparently without in diminishing frequency)

    A couple of questions/comments on this personal revelations thread:

    1) On what basis do those in the Reformed camp assign the timing of
    fulfillment of the Zechariah passage to the close of the NT canon?

    2) If the Zechariah passage cannot be authoritatively established as being
    fulfilled in our time (without compelling scripture, such an authoritative
    declaration is itself a form of prophesy), then I disagree strongly with
    the assertion in an earlier post (I can't remember who) that anyone who
    speaks a word of revelation authoritatively is probably a fraud while those
    that speak it doubtfully are more likely valid. Although I myself use
    extreme caution in accepting such "words from the Lord", in principle,
    using the doubtfulness of the "prophet" is a totally unscriptural
    criterion. I challenge anyone to find even one example of prophesy in the
    bible where the prophet did not speak with absolute authority.

    There's more questions/thoughts on this subject that I'd like to add, but
    I've got to get back to work just now, and I don't want to write them out
    so quickly that I miscommunicate. This whole issue is of some concern to
    me personally because I am currently trying to find a church home here in
    Rockford, IL. There are no PCA churches (the denomination to which I am
    most theologically similar) in town, and the available churches seem to me
    either too fundamentalist (I am an evolutionary biologist by training), too
    liberal, too traditional (and arrogant in their hyper-Calvinism), too
    hip-and-trendy (so seeker-service oriented that it's all entertainment and
    little depth), or very Pentecostal (not to pass judgement on this, but it's
    not my persuasion theologically in terms of its arminianism and tongues as
    a sign of spiritual baptism). It seems that I will have to choose somehow,
    but it is difficult to know which issues are most important.

    Douglas Hayworth

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    >There is no scriptural reason for saying that prophecy should end with the

    Several verses could be cited, including Galatians 1:8-9, Hebrews 1:1-2,
    and Rev. 22:18-19. The Hebrews passage is probably the most important, in
    asserting that Jesus constitutes the ultimate revelation of God. The OT
    also foresees a time when prophecy is no more, e.g. Jer. 31:34 or Zech.

    Zechariah 13:2-5, NIV "On that day, I will banish the names of the idols
    from the land, and they will be remembered no more," declares the LORD
    Almighty. "I will remove both the prophets and the spirit of impurity from
    the land. 3 And if anyone still prophesies, his father and mother, to whom
    he was born, will say to him, 'You must die, because you have told lies in
    the LORD's name.' When he prophesies, his own parents will stab him.
    4 "On that day every prophet will be ashamed of his prophetic vision. He
    will not put on a prophet's garment of hair in order to deceive. 5 He will
    say, 'I am not a prophet. I am a farmer; the land has been my livelihood
    since my youth.'"

    Such passages are the basis for the view that new revelation no longer
    occurs. God continues to give new insights into understanding and applying
    the Bible, but does not supplement or supplant it.

    Many others maintain that new revelations continue; often this is
    associated with a belief in the permanent continuation of all of the gifts
    of the Spirit mentioned in the Bible. However, most cults claim to have
    new revelation as well. The question then becomes how to tell what is
    legitimate. The "prophecy has ceased" view identifies all claimed
    revelations (distinguished from insights) subsequent to the NT as

        Dr. David Campbell
        Old Seashells
        University of Alabama
        Biodiversity & Systematics
        Dept. Biological Sciences
        Box 870345
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    That is Uncle Joe, taken in the masonic regalia of a Grand Exalted
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