Re: Does the Bible teach a flat earth?

From: Peter Ruest (
Date: Thu Jan 02 2003 - 00:57:14 EST

  • Next message: "Re: spong's bad assumptions and virgin births - for jim"

    Jim Armstrong wrote:

    > Peter Ruest wrote:
    > >George
    > >...
    > >There was indeed a severe kenosis, but we must not overextend it above
    > >what Scripture teaches us. He did share our human nature completely, but
    > >not to the complete exclusion of his divinity. This is underscored by
    > >the virgin birth and by his sinlessness.
    > >...
    > >Peter
    > >
    > Was Adam virgin-born? Did he have any chance to live as a sinless being?
    > Just wonderin' - Jim Armstrong

    Of course, Adam was not virgin-born, only Jesus was. Adam was born of a
    normal union of parents, like all of us. His "sinlessness" may be
    compared to the one every believer has right after his/her being born
    again through the action of the Holy Spirit. Unfortunately, we sin
    again, like Adam, and need divine forgiveness, on the basis of Christ's
    death for us. Those born again are sinners like the non-christians,
    except that they are forgiven sinners. They also have the advantage that
    recognizing one's sin and asking for forgiveness is much easier for
    them, as the Holy Spirit lives in their hearts.

    What was special about Adam was the fact that apparently he was the
    first human given a covenant by God, and so he became a representative
    for all humans. Unfortunately, he sinned, and by sinning he also failed
    in his commission. So he also became the representative (not progenitor)
    of all fallen humans (1 Cor. 15:22). More covenants (progressively
    narrower in scope) followed, with Noah, Abraham, etc., until Jesus
    fulfilled all (John 4:34; 19:30; Hebr. 10:14), becoming the originator
    of the New Covenant and of the new humanity (Hebr. 2:10; 12:2;

    I think Adam did have a chance of living a sinless life, and in a sense
    all those born again have such a chance, although I don't know of any
    one having succeeded, except Jesus. What is clear, however, is that
    so-called "original sin" is not inherited biologically, just as the new
    life of the believers is not inherited biologically (Rom. 5:19).
    Therefore, there is neither need nor evidence for all humans being
    genetical descendents of Adam.

    I don't think Jesus' sinlessness was sort of a direct consequence of his
    being born of a virgin. But both of these, among many other things, show
    that he was not only "fully human", but more. I didn't intend to make a
    more specific link between the two.

    Peter Ruest

    Dr. Peter Ruest, CH-3148 Lanzenhaeusern, Switzerland
    <> - Biochemistry - Creation and evolution
    "..the work which God created to evolve it" (Genesis 2:3)

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