From: John Burgeson (firstname.lastname@example.org)
Date: Mon Dec 30 2002 - 12:08:08 EST
Jim wrote: "If faith feels good, do it" :-) "
With all due respect, that would be perhaps the worst possible reason for
embracing any faith.
I note that CS Lewis specifically writes of "feeling bad about it" when he
became a theist. I don't recall him writing about his subsequent change to a
Christian in those terms but he may have. For myself, I was not at all
pleased with the Christian message when I was still an ignostic/agnostic. I
thought that, if it were true, I could have done a much better job.
Fortunately, I was not asked to do this! <G>
I became a Xtian on one premise only -- I was convinced that it was, in some
mysterious manner, true. I've been 41 years now trying to penetrate that
mystery -- I am still convinced it is true but I doubt that I'm really any
closer to understanding than I was in 1961. But the game is, after all, in
There are those on this list who claim to have figured out a lot more than I
have. I respect their scholarship and devotion, but I think they gave up the
chase far too soon.
Happy New Year, Jim. Don't go away.
John W. Burgeson (Burgy)
>From: "Jim Eisele" <email@example.com>
>To: "John Burgeson" <firstname.lastname@example.org>
>Subject: Re: Does the Bible teach a flat earth?
>Date: Fri, 27 Dec 2002 16:31:53 -0000
> >>Jim Wrote: "If Christianity is to survive, it is going to have to accept
> >>Bible as a human document. I don't know how successful Christians will
> >>with that approach, but its the only hope that they have."
> >In this, Jim, you appear to be in substantial agreement with the process
> >theologians Peacocke, Borg, Spong and Griffin. The latest books from the
> >first and last of these four Christians were reviewed by me both in
> >PERSPECTIVES and in an expanded article on Metanexus; copies are on my
> >I've read much of both Spong and Borg (not reviewed them however).
> >I personally don't agree with much of their theology, I see theirs as a
> >valid Christian worldview. The best book by Borg I have is the one he
> >co-wrote with a conservative (orthodox) Christian as a back and forth
> >over these issues.
> >I recommend any and all of these authors to you.
>I think that I mentioned in a previous post how odd it is to
>now be more "liberal" than the most liberal ASAer. One consequence
>is that I now side with Christian liberals against Biblical inerrantists.
>In that sense, I respect all honest scholarship. Oh well, I find the
>number of my "postable" thoughts for this list dwindling. If faith
>"feels good, do it" :-) The real societal problems are the conservative
>inerrantists (predominantly YECs).
> >From: "Jim Eisele" <email@example.com>
> >To: "Peter Ruest" <firstname.lastname@example.org>
> >CC: <email@example.com>
> >Subject: Re: Does the Bible teach a flat earth?
> >Date: Sat, 21 Dec 2002 09:48:37 -0000
> >Peter writes
> > >The Bible has to use the (flexible) language of the day, in a way
> > >compatible with God's intentions for _all_ of subsequent history.
> >Peter, first I would like to commend you on your valiant effort to
> >reconcile Gen 1 with the Bible. In an age when Christians still
> >believe the earth is 6K old, your approach is noble.
> >For the sake of Christianity, you may wish to cease making statements
> >like this, however. For the purposes of this list, I will only say
> >this (althought there are weightier problems with this angle) - the
> >Bible is way too long. The Christian message is all men are sinners
> >and need Christ to pay for their sins. Any perceived falsehood in
> >the Bible allows non-Christians to ignore its message (in Christian
> >terms, not get convicted of sin). This represents a contradiction.
> >God is supposed to be convicting non-Christians of sin, but because
> >of the falsehoods (I am simply tired of Christians explaining
> >inaccuracies as "figurative speech) they are turning their backs.
> >If Christianity is to survive, it is going to have to accept the Bible
> >as a human document. I don't know how successful Christians will be
> >with that approach, but its the only hope that they have.
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