Re: George's reply to Howard

From: Dr. Blake Nelson (
Date: Sat Dec 07 2002 - 22:12:18 EST

  • Next message: Jim Eisele: "Re: George's reply to Howard"

    Hi Jim,

    --- Jim Eisele <> wrote:
    (Reordered for convenience)
    > Hi Blake,
    (snipped some stuff about the Bible and evolution)

    > Blake, you are obviously very intelligent, and think
    > on
    > a "high" level. But even the most intelligent folks
    > can
    > rationalize away reality that they aren't prepared
    > to accept.
    > Nobody believed in evolution when the Bible was
    > written.
    > Although I admire your tenacity, we have trouble
    > finding
    > a starting point for discussion when we can't even
    > agree
    > about this.

    In other words, you are right (even though before you
    were, by your current view completely wrong), you know
    that you are right and all other viewpoints are the
    result of wrong thinking, including wish fulfillment,
    dogma, etc?

    Honestly, Jim, if you were so wrong before (twice
    before, by your count), how do you know you are so
    right now? Your current ardency doesn't inspire
    confidence in light of your past ardency for positions
    you now think totally wrong.

    (snipped some stuff about Jim believing that suffering
    is the result of "imperfect evolution")

    The point of my question was to bring out the fact
    that you haven't really thought hard about your
    statements. What is "perfect" vs. "imperfect" about
    evolution? If you mean evolution is an "imperfect"
    process, by what standards would you measure it as
    imperfect? Isn't doing so merely anthropomorphizing
    wish fullfilment that you assume religion and
    religious people do?

    If you think about it critically, you have placed
    yourself in what is very likely (at least it seems to
    me based on what you write) a logically inconsistent
    position in regards to ontology and epistemology. I
    would strongly urge you to think about (and ideally
    read about) how you think you know things and what
    your evidence for those things are.

    Perhaps, things will become more complex but at least
    a whole lot clearer to you as to what the real issues
    and concerns are about whether to adopt theistic,
    atheistic or agnostic beliefs.

    All the best,


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