RE: Evolution & Identity of the ID designer

From: Adrian Teo (
Date: Tue Dec 03 2002 - 13:23:31 EST

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    Hello Walt,

            You wrote:
            The difficulty is that I am discussing evolution with people
    who have IQs as
            good as anyone on this list and they do not accept evolution.
    Mostly they
            are OEC people who feel that:

            1.) "Evolution" is an atheistic concept that leaves God out
    of the physical
            acts of creation because atheists cannot allow for intervention by God.


            2.) It stretches credibility to believe that simple natural
    processes could
            give rise to what we see, in contrast to what Genesis 1 describes..

            Instead they tend to be OECs who feel that the Bible
    correctly defines God
            as Intervening at various points and creating life
    incrementally as outline
            in Genesis 1. If "evolution" is undefined, then nothing you have listed
            below would be true of evolution and not true of OEC. OEC is
    specific and
            could be falsified in several ways:

            1.) One discovers an unbroken chain in the fossil record for
    the evolution
            of one species from another.

            2.) An example of evolution takes place in our lifetime, induced in the
            laboratory by nothing other than changing environmental
    conditions of some
            creature like rats.

            AT: There are many different takes on OEC, depending on one's
    metaphysics and epistemology.
            I consider myself in the OEC camp (perhaps incorrectly,
    depending on your definition), but I hold to an understanding which
    is quite different from the one you outlined. The OEC stance that you
    describe assumes that there are two mutually exclusive categories:
    natural causes and divine action. If one is able to expose a natural
    cause, then God is ruled out. This is not my understanding.

            Evolution, to me, is not an atheistic concept (i.e. not
    theological), but a scientific one. Divine action and natural causes
    are not mutually exclusive. To put it simply, while all physical
    events may have natural causes, their ultimate cause for existence is
    God. This understanding is more in line with Aquinas than Hume. In
    this view, there is no need to search for some window of opening in
    the natural world (s.a. quantum indeterminancy) for God to act. All
    natural events and entities owe their existence to God, and God works
    through secondary natural causes.
            I consider myself a creationist in the sense that I believe
    that in the immanence and providence of God. It is through His power
    that all of creation is sustained.


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