Re: Celebrating Creation.II

From: D. F. Siemens, Jr. (
Date: Sat Oct 26 2002 - 00:37:05 EDT

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    Some good, some dubious.

    On Fri, 25 Oct 2002 18:32:41 -0400 "Stuart d Kirkley"
    <> writes:
    > I'm only positing that there is obviously an intelligent order to
    > the
    > universe, and that intelligence stems from one source only, which is
    > mind (for where else could it possibly come from) and that this mind

    The biblical term is Spirit (John 4:24), _pneuma_ rather than _nous_.
    > must be supreme and primordial, an intelligent source beyond any
    > human reckoning, and that perhaps this is what we come to know as
    > being God, the governing intelligence of all creation. The universe
    > being infinite, it must be a manifestation of God's infinite
    > intelligence, and since intelligence is mind, then perhaps the
    > universe is infinite mind expressed. And if so, then it is only meet
    Best information we have is that the universe is finite and unlimited or
    unbounded. This means that it is like the earth, limited in area and
    volume, but with no possibility that any of us will fall off the edge.
    This, of course, springs from Einstein's special theory. His general
    theory makes possible a universe too large to see, let alone traverse,
    even in principle. But no universe which has a beginning in a Big Bang
    can be infinite.

    > to capitalize Mind to ascribe it as a synonym for God.

    see above. This synonymy comes from Christian Science, Unity and related
    "science of mind" dogma. It has no relevance to sound thought.

    > I thought this tied in well with the excellent sermon on praising
    > God's wisdom put forward by Robert Schneider. And wisdom being
    > another espression of intelligence, or Mind, certainly one has to
    > allow that wisdom comes from above, or a higher source of
    > intelligence than our limited human capacities, and perhaps this is
    The difference is that Schneider is expressing standard Christian
    theology, not confusing Spirit with mind or Mind. This means that he does
    not intend it as you read it. For their adherents, there are few
    similarities between Kantian Idealism and the Pragmatism of James and
    Schiller. But I know of a case where much of Kant's view was translated
    into a flaming Schillerian Pragmatism. It really upset a devoutly Kantian
    professor. I present this as an illustration of how incompatible views
    can be intertranslated, though the translation will not be recognized by
    one group of partisans.

    > why we should feel reverence and praise for God's benevolence and
    > lovingkindness as He ( Divine Mind) guides us through wisdom to a
    > better sense of being and harmony.

    But the Christian view is that redemption through the substitutionary
    atonement is the only way to reconcile fallen human beings with the
    thrice holy Father. This is the ultimate lovingkindness of the Triune

    > You can accept this or not, and maybe my initial premise went too
    > far
    > and can be contested through logic, but the concept and idea is
    > sound and valid, and for me, carries a lot of weight. I think when
    > you understand and feel ( which I'm sure you must have) that wisdom
    > and intelligence come from a place outside of ourselves, as an
    > inspiration (as in 'every good gift and every perfect gift is from
    > above' James1:17), you get an inkling (or even a very strong sense)
    > of a greater intelligence (a far greater intelligence) which is ever
    > present and ready to lovingly bestow it's benefits upon you. For me,
    > it really helps to understand that this intelligence is
    > omnipresent
    > and omniscient Mind, or God, and the definition, or synonym, is very
    > apt indeed, to me. That is my personal experience, and I was
    > inspired
    > by Mr. Scneiders eloquent homily praising God for His benevolent
    > wisdom.
    > Stuart K.
    I agree that life, continued being, and every good gift has its source in
    the One who is Creator and Providence. But I hold that the ultimate
    source of understanding of this One is in the incarnate, crucified and
    resurrected Son. Further, this underlies Schneider's commendable
    meditation. But I see no indication that you understand it within these

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