RE: "charismatic" theologies and science

Date: Thu Aug 29 2002 - 08:51:28 EDT

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    Please, Moorad, this is the type of response I was hoping to avoid! As I
    stated in my original post, I don't hold to the "no-tongues=no-Spirit"
    theology myself, but I am not interested in hearing each person's critique
    of that theology. I am more interested in hearing from those that do
    personally experience and practice those types of spiritual gifts and their
    attending theology; what unique struggles and perspectives do they have as
    they attempt to deal with faith-science issues?

               > To:
    <>, <>
                         08/29/02 Subject: RE:
    "charismatic" theologies and science
                         07:19 AM

    The difficulty with the charismatic movement is to say that if one does not
    speak in tongues, then that is sufficient proof that one does not have the
    Holy Spirit. Before we seek further gifts, let us be sure we are already
    using those that God has given us and use them to glorify Him. I once met
    an Armenian lady who spoke in tongues but said she never did it in public
    and that it was her prayer language. That I can respect! Moorad

    -----Original Message-----
    From: []
    Sent: Wednesday, August 28, 2002 3:31 PM
    Subject: "charismatic" theologies and science

    Iain Strachan wrote the following in his BIO:

    "I attend an Evangelical Church of England, that has moderate
    charismatic tendencies. I'm very open to the idea that the gifts of
    the spirit are real, but also aware that it can get divisive.
    Certain people in our church got involved in the Toronto thing, and I
    have to say I was a little worried at the sight of people shaking
    uncontrollably - it didn't seem to me that this kind of thing was
    from God, but I guess one should keep an open mind about these
    things. I'd be interested to hear what other people in the group
    feel about these issues."

    Iain raises a question that I have been thinking about for awhile. First, a
    note on why I am interested in this topic: I was raised in a Christian
    tradition that did not embrace and practice manifestations of the Spirit
    such as speaking in tongues. Although I have no interest in rushing after
    such gifts for the sake of the gift and don't think that I hold to a
    theology that expects/require these particular expressions to be present in
    every believer's life, I do desire to be filled with the Holy Spirit (as
    Jesus implies that we should seek to be - see Luke 11:13), and thereby
    empowered to do his work. If being filled has the side effect of some
    physical/verbal manifestation, then I think that I am open to that as a

    That said, I have absolutely no interest in precipitating a heated debate
    on the theological points involved with this issue. Obviously, some of our
    theologies will constrain (for good or bad - I have no desire to judge) how
    we each come down on this issue (theoretically and experientially).
    Instead, I would like to initiate discussion by posing the following

    What is the coincidence of more charismatic "spiritual gifts" theology
    conciliatory/complementary/liberal (I use the word "liberal" in the very
    best sense of the word, not as left-winged) views on the relationship of
    Christian theology and natural science (esp. with regard to accepting

    I would be very interested to know there exists people who are at the same
    time practicing charismatics (for lack of a better term) and evolutionists
    (also for lack of a better term). For example, does anyone know an
    evolutionary biologist who is an active member of an Assembly of God
    church? I would like to think that such people do exist, even if they are
    rare. (My impression is that a disproportionate number of people associated
    with the ASA are from more Reformed traditions, if only because those were
    the folks who started and kept the organization going for many years).

    If such "charismatic scientists" exist, I would be very interested in
    learning about their unique perspectives on the relationship of natural
    science and Christian faith.

    Again, please allow me to emphasize that I am not interested in theological
    rants about such theological points, although you may wish to simply
    describe your personal understanding (e.g., "My theology is X, and this
    prohibits me from believing in Y and experiencing Z"; Please DO NOT say, "I
    hold to theology X, and from my viewpoint here's what's wrong with theology
    Y with regard to this issue").

    I look forward to the responses


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