RE: My Daughter is a YEC

From: Stephen J. Krogh (
Date: Fri May 24 2002 - 14:36:38 EDT

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    > -----Original Message-----
    > From: []On
    > Behalf Of Walter Hicks
    > Sent: Friday, May 24, 2002 8:57 AM
    > To: Glenn Morton
    > Cc: asa
    > Subject: Re: My Daughter is a YEC
    > I really don't believe this "theory" myself, but I feel that it is far
    > more defensible than is presented below:
    > Glenn Morton wrote:
    > > Without a doubt, the theory is, as Jan said, consistent with all known
    > > facts. But so is the theory that everything started yesterday
    > afternoon at
    > > 2:33 and 17 seconds. All such theories are, IMO, a form of solipsism.
    > > There are two philosophical reasons and one theological reason
    > for rejecting
    > > them. First, we really can't know anything. If that is the
    > case, we might be
    > > brains in bell jars being fed stimuli, or people like those in
    > the movie
    > > Matrix. Secondly, it makes science impossible. Why do
    > experiments? After
    > > the experiment, you can't be sure that the experiment itself
    > wasn't 'part of
    > > the background for simulation'! At each moment you can't be
    > sure the past
    > > actually happened.
    > If I were to have stated it properly, there is really no significant
    > difference between what you believe and this model. The past is "real"
    > in every respect as that which you would see if the 15 billion years had
    > actually transpired. It is not "apparent age" any more than Adam was
    > "apparently" old when God created him. He really was his actual age, if
    > you believe that it was real history. When Jesus made water into wine,
    > was he a lair because the wine did not age? It simply is that God did
    > not "waste time" for 15 billion year when Mankind and Jesus Christ's
    > appearance on earth are His main focus. You still practice science by
    > the laws God created and you find oil where you expect it to be.
    > Now if SETI ever found something, then the notion would be hard to
    > defend. So far -- nada.
    > >
    > > And theologically, it makes God a big liar. Nothing we see in
    > astronomy is
    > > real except for the sun planets and a few nearby stars.
    > Galactic collisions
    > > didn't happen, supernovae didn't occur and quasars don't
    > exist. The universe
    > > is an illusion and we can't know it.
    > > And related to that: What is so special about 7000 years ago?
    > Why not 1829
    > > years ago which would make the resurrection part of the
    > background? Maybe
    > > the Bible itself is an illusion, having been written into the
    > fabric of the
    > > universe as part of the background?
    > I'm not a theologian (as George well knows) but it seems to fit the
    > Bible pretty well. How can that make God a liar? God never said that the
    > universe is 15 billion years old. And the universe is just as real
    > whichever way God created it.

    My problem with apparent age is not only is there an apparent age but an
    apparent history of events. Did these events not actually happen? And then,
    when we can watch an astronomical event actually occur, when it took place
    over 6,000 years ago (SN1987A, for instance) do we conclude that it really
    did not happen at all? To conclude this is analogous to Adam being created
    with scars, calloused feet and hands, a beard, or even childhood memories,
    indicators of age and experiences. Why is 15 billion years a waste of time?
    How does God experience time if we understand that He can operate outside of
    time? Is he confined to time as we experience it? I wouldn't think so.


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