Re: Is there a gay gene?

From: Stuart d Kirkley (
Date: Fri May 17 2002 - 19:04:19 EDT

  • Next message: george murphy: "Re: Science, Women, and Paul"

    Hi John,
    I got a chance to take a look at your web site and your section on
    homosexuality. I have to admit that without reading the books which
    you recommend it is difficult to understand the entire argument. The
    one thing I did note was in your review of Helminiaks book you state
    that 'The Romans passage refers to it as an example of an impurity,
    only to insist that impurity issues are of no importance on
    Christianity.' I think and hope you are referring to the judaic laws
    of purity here, because I have to maintain that purity (sexual and
    moral), and purifying oneself, is absolutely crucial to one's own
    salvation and to the mission of Christianity (universal salvation)

    The scripture of 1 John 3:1-3 indicates how important this
    is:"...every man that hath this hope in him purifieth himself, even
    as he is pure". This also ties in with the scripture of Habakkuk 1:13
    "Thou art of purer eyes than to behold evil, and canst not look on
    iniquity". This is the nature of God, he does not and will not know
    evil, and since he is omnipotent and omniscient, all knowing, or all
    that can be known in truth, then evil, in truth, can not be known,
    unless one believes in a source of knowledge besides God, which is a
    direct violation of the first commandment. Our job is to know this
    truth for ourselves,to obey the first commandment, and then evil
    will be unknown in our own lives.

      "Mark the perfect man, and behold the upright, for the end of that
    man is peace". This is no idle promise, and it is a command as well
    as a promise. Christianity demands purity and purification, for
    without it, we will never experience redmption and our full and
    complete salvation from the ills of the flesh (sin, disease and
    death). Purity is not attained without effort, chastity must overcome
    lust, and Divine Love must triumph over sensuality, health must
    overrule disease, Life must overcome death.

    Since, as I said before, sexual activity, in it's purest sense, is
    for the purpose of reproduction, then if we are true to the command
    to purify ourselves, then sexual activity would only be engaged for
    that purpose. You can not deny that the primary purpose of the
    reproductive organs is to reproduce, and if you truly believe that
    God is our creator, then you have to concede that he is the only
    creator, ie, it is He which does the reproduction, not we ourselves.
    Ps 100:3 'Know ye that the Lord he is God: it is he that hath made
    us, and not we ourselves". This includes all creation, from Genesis
    to Revelation.

      Because God can 'not look on iniquity', or since God does not know
    iniquity, then we, as his creation, can not really know it either.
    The Bible shepherds us to our true relationship with God, and in this
    divine relationship, everything is harmonious and divinely governed,
    including our relationships, and especially our sexual relations. But
    we have to learn to listen for God's direction and to be obedient to
    His direction. If we are not, then God will eventually shepherd us
    back to His loving relationship. This is the purpose of Divine Love,
    to reform and heal sinful behaviour.

    SInce God is the creator, and our most important relationship is with
    Him, to enter into any kind of relationship that is not in accord
    with His government, or is ordained by Him, will inevitably result in
    disharmony. In light of this, and what I have just said about the
    true purpose of sexual activity, then immoral sexual activity, or sex
    outside the marriage covenant, (ie pre-marital sex, fornication,
    adultery, even masturbation, and yes, homosexuality) should be
    considered a sin, or acting outside of the will of God, whether
    through ignorance, defiance, selfishness, or whatever. It should be
    considered a sin, because it is not in accord with God's will, as I
    said, He is the creator, and He demands that creation (and
    procreation) be carried out according to His will, which is always
    loving, pure and harmonious.

      Sinful sexual activity (immorality) is not in accord with the
    realisation of our harmonious relationship with Him, which ultimately
    results in our harmonious relationship with all His creation. In the
    23rd Psalm, we find that God leadeth us beside the still waters, to
    green pastures, and leadeth us in the paths of righteousness for His
    names sake. But this is prefaced with the desire to accept the Lord
    as our saviour, and to not want, or in other words, to not be
    willful. It is also a promise, if we are obedient to God as our
    Divine Shepherd, that we will never be in want, of harmonious
    relationships, or of peace and fulfillment. This may be difficult to
    accept, but if you allow God to reveal this to you, (to shepherd you,
    ie. you are really seeking the truth that 'will set you free'), then
    God will reveal it to you in time and in His own way.

    In closing, it should be said that God does not punish man for sinful
    behaviour, but he does punish sin, or rather sin punishes itself, and
    as long as we continue to engage in sin, or believe in a will besides
    His, then this sense of sin, or wrong desire, will be punished. The
    story of the prodigal son bears this out, it was not until the son
    came to his senses and confessed his sin, that wisdom dawned on him
    and he returned to his father. As soon as he realised his error, the
    father recognised him 'from afar' and ran to meet him to forgive him.
    If the son did not renounce his sin and returned to his 'riotous
    living', or self will and indulgence, his father would 'not look on
    iniquity' would not know him, and disharmony, or punishment, would
    ensue, as it did before. As long as the sin, or error of wrong
    desire, is recognised and rebuked, and reform is initiated, then
    harmony will return and mercy will be obtained. This is the nature of
    Divine Love, the 'father': to reform !
      wayward individual and restore unto him his rightful place as a
    harmoniously loved member of his fathers family.

    "Salvation is real" - The Cranberries

    Stuart Kirkley


    On Wed, 15 May 2002 19:53:02 JW Burgeson wrote: >Stu -- you wrote: "I have not had the time to read your web site yet, nor >have I had the time to compose the careful response this deserves. Suffice >for now that the Bible clearly sanctifies and blesses the union of marriage >(heterosexual) and there is no condemnation of loving sexual activity >within the bonds of matrimony. " > >Actually, I do not see scripture condemning polygamy, concubinage or >prostitution either; certainly not in the OT. But I admit I have not studied >it closely wrt this subject. > >"I would like to explore your contention that homosexual behaviour is not >inherently sinful, and I will read your treatise, but I just don't have the >time right now." > >OK, fair comment. It is not something to be done in an afternoon. The >materials I have on my web site were collected and agonized over durng a >period of at least five years, and it was only last August that I decided to >state a position on the issue. What I have is, of course, not a "treatise," >but simply a position statement saying what it is I hold and the reasoning >that supports it. > >Thanks for the comments. > >Burgy > > > > > >Hoss (aka Burgy) > > > > >_________________________________________________________________ >Chat with friends online, try MSN Messenger: > >

    ________________________________________________________ Outgrown your current e-mail service? Get a 25MB Inbox, POP3 Access, No Ads and No Taglines with LYCOS MAIL PLUS.

    This archive was generated by hypermail 2b29 : Sat May 18 2002 - 12:15:33 EDT